DP 9 maxes out gain on Trilian - Resolved

[BobK]

I created a project a couple of years ago which includes Spectrasonics Trilian in a V-Rack. In Trilian, I'm just using one Part.

When I open it in DP 8.07, Trilian's Part Level slider is at its default 0 dB. When I press 'Play', it stays there, as it should.

When I open it in DP 9.00, the Part Level slider is at 0 dB, but when I press 'Play' it shoots up to its maximum.

Nothing has changed in the file, and both have the same version of Trilian, 1.4.3d (64-bit), which is current.

V-Racks do not contain automation, so this shouldn't be happening. Seems to be a bug.

I tried the following, and neither helped:

1. Delete and re-instantiate Trilian.

2. Create a new instrument track containing Trilian in the Sequence (not in a V-Rack). Same problem.

Am I missing something? Anybody else have this issue with Trilian?

[James Steele]

Is there automation in the MIDI track assigned to Trilian? Where is the fader set?

[BobK]

Is there automation in the MIDI track assigned to Trilian? Where is the fader set?

No, there's no automation data in the MIDI track assigned to Trilian (and its automation button is disabled); the fader is at 127.

[Gravity Jim]

In DP8, this used to happen on about 90% of my Kontakt instruments. Apparently, DP was sending some kind of initialization command that doesn't show up in the track and that those instruments understood as "get as loud as possible."

The cure (I think I learned this from James) is to use Automation Setup, choose "Only" and then leave the box blank, or add just the auto commands that you do want to use, then apply that setup to the affected track.

I should check and see if there's a Pref that would affect this.

[BobK]

The cure (I think I learned this from James) is to use Automation Setup, choose "Only" and then leave the box blank, or add just the auto commands that you do want to use, then apply that setup to the affected track.

That was it. I chose "only", left the box empty, and applied to the relevant MIDI track, and it worked.

Thanks, Jim!

I'm still curious why this wasn't necessary in DP 8, but is in DP 9. I emailed MOTU and Spectrasonics; hopefully they'll be able to explain.

[corbo-billy]

I confirm for the Only option in Automation SetUp: many thanks _

[James Steele]

Whenever you start DP's transport it sends the fader position to the VI.

[BobK]

I remember dealing with this with Kontakt several years ago, and I think instead of changing the automation setting, I just added Volume automation to the MIDI track, and that worked too.

I tried that with Trilian just now and it worked.

I checked Kontakt in that same sequence, which is running a piano library. When the MIDI track is maxed out at 127, Kontakt's part volume is not maxed out: it's at 0 dB, while the maximum is +12.

I don't need it to go up any higher in this project, but I wonder if it it's possible to do that if needed.

In other words, a MIDI track at maximum volume max out Trilian's part volume, but doesn't do that in Kontakt.

That difference seems odd. Am I missing something?

[BobK]

Here's another option to stop Trilian's Part Level from responding to CC7 from DP (thanks to Spectrasonics support):

In Trilian, go to the Utility button and select "MIDI Learn and Automation > Unlearn All MIDI Learns".

That's more drastic, but good to know it's there.

I didn't realize till yesterday that Trilian's Part Level slider responds in real-time to the MIDI track volume slider in DP, even if automation is disabled on both and the sequence is not playing back. That's a plus.

[mhschmieder]

Yeah, I had this same problem a couple of months ago, and reported on it, but I forget my topic header and whether I made it generic once I realized how widespread the issue had become.

I rarely use automation, and the projects that have caused me grief have no automation. I don't remember whether we collectively figured out that DP's defaults had changed recently (after DP7 at some point) or whether the behavior changed. It's a PITA though.

As stated above, you have to select track-by-track, say "Only", and then nothing, so that you essentially are shutting off automation for that track.

I still don't understand WHY certain plug-ins and libraries go to max or default volume otherwise, but it is what it is.

For certain, it happens on Omnisphere 2, quite a few Kontakt libraries (especially ones from Spitfire Audio), and I think some (but not all) of Arturia's soft synths.

Turning off automation globally isn't sufficient, unfortunately.

Also, as I reported in the other thread, it matters not whether you start your sequence with "All Notes Off" and "Reset All Controllers" as I do (usually in the first bar; sometimes the second). In certain Kontakt libraries though, you need to turn off the library's ability to react to Volume events.

It sounds like both Bob and James are onto something in terms of understanding the reasons why some libraries and plug-ins now respond this way (I NEVER had this problem until a few months ago, in ten years of using DP). When I'm less tired, I'll read those posts agin and see if I am enlightened enough by them to change my MIDI practices and Mixer settings in a way that obviates the need for turning off automation (which I might need sometimes).

[BobK]

On second thought, if I recall correctly - and I might not - the problem I had with Kontakt several years ago might have been different.

I think it was that after I set the level fader where I wanted it for one of the MIDI tracks feeding Kontakt, it would max out after I pressed play, even though there was no automation in the track.

My solution was to turn on automation for that MIDI track and take a snapshot to keep the MIDI fader in place.

[Tobor]

Thanks all for info. I've had this problem with Kontakt since upgrading, the faders of the internal instruments reset to 0.00 on playback.

I also recall having to reset something similar awhile back. Is the 'Automation Setup' a global pref? It would be a pain to have to deal with this for every track in Kontakt, Trilian, whatever.

I have noticed that although many of my DP8 prefs transferred into DP9, the new floating windows feature was switched on by default. Although I'm enjoying a window float when I need it, for the most part having all plug windows float would be counterproductive. But having it switched on by default made me find out where I could turn it on or off, which was educational.

With the new automation lanes in DP9, perhaps something similar has been set to a default of 'on' for automation as well, as I noticed some automation enabled tracks in previous sequences that were not on before. Now I need to turn it off! Resetting tracks to 0.00 is anti-automation.....

Anyway thanks for the info, when I get home I'll see if I can reset my prefs.

[David Polich]

Holy crapola, I'm glad I read this thread!
I was about to revisit some old projects
and replace the bass tracks with Trilian
basses on those...I would have launched
an instance of Trilian and had this "volume
bug" appear unexpectedly.