weird, not wonderful

[edthered90]

Although I've been involved in electronic music production since mid 80s I took about 10 years off from the recording business. Now I'm back to producing and I can't believe the weirdest issue I have encountered. Although I just got ableton 9 on a windows laptop I decided to do the new project on my old set up which is Mac G5 Power PC (one generation before Pentium chip) running Digital Performer 4 on it and using MOTU 896HD for audio interface. Now keep in mind that I have produced literally hundreds of tracks on this setup which were commercially released on many different indie labels and also had a release on Atlantic records. I don't claim to be a very technical person but I'm not completely ignorant to this technology.

OK, so now I'm all excited because I'm doing a new track - the first one in 10 years, got to the point where I like the way it all sounds, so I bounce it all to a stereo track in DP and then export it as AIFF/WAV/MP3 files (Bounce to disc command in DP). Checked on the MAC - sounds great! Saved on my flash drive and copied it to my windows laptop and uploaded onto sound cloud. Listened through the headphones on the windows notbook - sounds terrible!

It sounds like a very heavy squeeze compressor/limiter is applied to it. The bottom end became very low, high mids are very loud, the vocals are fading in and out (compression) and when the break comes and all the drums and bass drop out - the quiet keyboard line slowly fades in and becomes very loud until drums and bass kick back in (kinda like what you hear on the radio where the quiet parts are brought up by a compressor setting).

WHAT COULd BE CAUSING THIS???

FYI: It sounds messed up like that on some comps but sounds fine on others.
I thought that there may be incompatibility somewhere so I recorded the track running the DP file and taking optical out from 896HD into Scarlett 18i8 (audio interface) and into my laptop, recording directly into Ableton. Played it back through the monitoring system (18i8 and Dynaudio monitors) it sounded fine! Thought I had it solved... but when I listened through the headphones plugged in directly into computer it sounded like that compressed crap again!

OK, you'd think now that maybe it's my computer's sound card or something... that's what I also thought. So I copied one of my older WAV masters made exactly the same way on my G5 to the windows notebook and it sounded just fine, no compression!

So now I'm totally confused. What would you try at this point?

[edthered90]

It appears that there is a playback issue on Beats Audio on some comps that sounds exactly like the issue I'm experiencing (I do have an HP laptop with beatsaudio on it).

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-P ... -p/2270281

Strange thing is that my older files done exactly the same way as I did this new one sound fine on this HP machine - no weird compression at all! I thought that maybe it's just this particular computer, so I sent the file to a few friends who are DJs/producers. Some reported hearing the same issue, while others did not.

Could it be that due to some internal error DP had lost some codec that it used to apply to the files making them sound compressed on some machines?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Could it be that due to some internal error DP had lost some codec that it used to apply to the files making them sound compressed on some machines?

I'm not sure I'd exactly call it an "error."

I'm gonna go with: using a fairly ancient DAW release. Yeah, in theory this should work, but a lot has changed and file formats that were once reliable are now obsolete.

Not that what I am saying is by any means a definitive answer, but what I'd try is porting the DP file to a more "contemporary" program and reexporting it so more recent codecs will be applied before uploading. I believe DO used to use SD II format exclusively and nobody is supporting that any more. I suspect artifacts from that code is f#$%ing up your file during transfer.

MOTU no has a FULLY FUNCTIONAL demo. It would be worth downloading that and trying your stuff there, but be aware that you might not be able to simply open the file directly.

Times change. I so want to drive my 1963 Thunderbird again. The only reason I sold it was I couldn't get a decent oil sender valve and it needed to be replaced every month. Literally! Perhaps it's time to change the oil in you system...

[edthered90]

Hi MIDI Life Crisis. I'm in audio life crisis myself right now ))
I actually did try that. I ran DP song (without mixing it down to a stereo track)and took the audio out of Optical Output of my MOTU 896HD interface into Optical In of my Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 audio interface that is connected too this exact windows laptop which is running Ableton 9 suit. Recorded audio onto Ableton, exported it and still had the same weird compression issue.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I haven't heard the track, but could it be a problem with the sample rate of a clocking issue? Again, DP4 is archaic by today's standards and much has changed in the world. If it sounds OK on your machine but isn't making to the outside world, then there is something being compressed or converted in the process. In theory it shouldn't be problem, but as we all know, between concept and fantasy lies reality, and clearly the reality is there is some "incompatibility" happening in the chain, somewhere. Without more specific info on the file specs you are exporting from DP4, it's kind of hard to nail down what's actually happening.

[mikehalloran]

All we know about your G5 is that it's a G5. What OS? What version of QuickTime are you running?

There may be a simple solution but I don't know if you're equipped to try it.

[Shooshie]

How does the file sound on a CD player in your car? Your house? If you make an mp3, how does it sound on an iPod? I think you need to establish a baseline from which to work. If it sounds normal on most playback machines, it's safe to assume that your PC is the problem. If it's doing the same thing everywhere you play it, then it could be the Mac. If it plays normally on some devices and abnormally on others, then it's a weird something or other that's getting encoded in the final bounce or mp3 conversion. But the fact that it sounds fine on some systems tells you it's not necessarily a DP mistake.

You're going to have to figure out where the problem is getting introduced, and whether it's during the creation of the file, or in playback. If there is a 3rd party app causing this, it's probably worth ripping out anything that could even remotely be responsible for it. After ten years, what could be worth saving, except the stuff you know you'll be using, like Digital Performer, plugins, CD burners, etc.?

Be aware that, occasionally, certain old software leaves behind scattered files that can cause problems. Use an Un-Installer where possible. For any music app, editor, or processor you're trashing, look up anything you can find about it online to see how to get rid of its scattered files. Some of those things can wreak havoc with later systems if not deleted.

Shooshie

[edthered90]

I haven't heard the track, but could it be a problem with the sample rate of a clocking issue? Again, DP4 is archaic by today's standards and much has changed in the world. If it sounds OK on your machine but isn't making to the outside world, then there is something being compressed or converted in the process. In theory it shouldn't be problem, but as we all know, between concept and fantasy lies reality, and clearly the reality is there is some "incompatibility" happening in the chain, somewhere. Without more specific info on the file specs you are exporting from DP4, it's kind of hard to nail down what's actually happening.

no, I don't think that sampling rate (44.1) or clock issue (set for internal) here. But I agree that something gets converted or changed in the process.

[edthered90]

All we know about your G5 is that it's a G5. What OS? What version of QuickTime are you running?

There may be a simple solution but I don't know if you're equipped to try it.

Hi Mike,
It's a G5 PowerPC one generation before Pentium chip, OS 10.4
Quicktime player version 7.6.4

[mikehalloran]

All G5s used a PPC chip set – there many versions but none have Intel Inside. Many of us including me spent a long, long time with one.

OS 10.4 and QuickTime 7.6.4 was what I was looking for. You can use it to take your mix and export it to another format. This strips and rewrites the header file leaving the audio intact. SD to .wav is common enough and works in nearly everything.

If you are not running 10.4.11, you should. I don't know if you can run QT 7.6.6 but that shouldn't matter.

[edthered90]

How does the file sound on a CD player in your car? Your house? If you make an mp3, how does it sound on an iPod? I think you need to establish a baseline from which to work. If it sounds normal on most playback machines, it's safe to assume that your PC is the problem. If it's doing the same thing everywhere you play it, then it could be the Mac. If it plays normally on some devices and abnormally on others, then it's a weird something or other that's getting encoded in the final bounce or mp3 conversion. But the fact that it sounds fine on some systems tells you it's not necessarily a DP mistake.

You're going to have to figure out where the problem is getting introduced, and whether it's during the creation of the file, or in playback. If there is a 3rd party app causing this, it's probably worth ripping out anything that could even remotely be responsible for it. After ten years, what could be worth saving, except the stuff you know you'll be using, like Digital Performer, plugins, CD burners, etc.?

Be aware that, occasionally, certain old software leaves behind scattered files that can cause problems. Use an Un-Installer where possible. For any music app, editor, or processor you're trashing, look up anything you can find about it online to see how to get rid of its scattered files. Some of those things can wreak havoc with later systems if not deleted.

Shooshie

Hi Shooshie, thank you for replying.
I burned an audio CD with this song. It played/sounded OK on the Mac and played on HP laptop but had that compression/low end cut off issue still. But when I tried to play the CD on my car stereo it gave me an error message. I'm working on other parts of your advice so will address those later

[edthered90]

All G5s used a PPC chip set – there many versions but none have Intel Inside. Many of us including me spent a long, long time with one.

OS 10.4 and QuickTime 7.6.4 was what I was looking for. You can use it to take your mix and export it to another format. This strips and rewrites the header file leaving the audio intact. SD to .wav is common enough and works in nearly everything.

If you are not running 10.4.11, you should. I don't know if you can run QT 7.6.6 but that shouldn't matter.

yes, I have 10.4.11
How do I convert the SD files to wav without using DP? Also the SD files wuld be L and R (2 files) how do I convert them and make it one stereo file?

[mikehalloran]

Drop the audio file onto QT, Export as Sound to WAVE (or AIFF)

In the case of .L and .R, drop one side onto QT; both halves will play and it will export as a stereo file. Your original file will remain untouched.

DP 5.1x and later can this also (Bounce to Disk) but DP 4.x will not.

iTunes has this functionality but you have to set it up in Preferences. I like QuickTime for this.

[Shooshie]

If you are not running 10.4.11, you should. I don't know if you can run QT 7.6.6 but that shouldn't matter.

Also, the last version of DP4 should be the one you use. I forget, but I think it was DP 4.11 or 4.12. You can get those from the MOTU site, under Downloads/Mac/Digital Performer. There's a link for earlier versions somewhere down the page. It goes all the way back to classic Mac days.

[mikehalloran]

Also, the last version of DP4 should be the one you use. I forget, but I think it was DP 4.11 or 4.12.

Agreed! 4.12 can still be downloaded.

If you bought the paid upgrade to 4.5, then you should be running 4.61.

You can get those from the MOTU site, under Downloads/Mac/Digital Performer. There's a link for earlier versions somewhere down the page. It goes all the way back to classic Mac days.

Click on older versions and scroll down till you find it.

http://www.motu.com/download/download_m ... loads.html