Window Sets / Spaces / Effects

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cleamon
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Window Sets / Spaces / Effects

Post by cleamon »

Normally, I try to keep my open effects windows to a minimum. First because of the clutter and secondly because (as I understand), when the effect window is closed, the effect is pre-rendered and consumes less cpu.

However, I do like to keep my VIs open and I use os/x spaces to keep things organized. Works great while working on the project. Keeps the clutter down, it's flexible, easy to navigate with ctrl-arrow, or Mission Control.

However, every time I open the project, everything I had open in the previous session is now open (as expected), BUT on the current space. I've tried using Window Sets for this, but it doesn't size/move the effects windows.
  • As a side note, invoking a saved window set that had a Kontakt window in it, "minimizes" said Kontakt window.
    Certainly not an expected behavior
    .
Anyone else experiencing any of this. Is this "normal"?
Is this a DP 8.06 issue? Or an OS/X 10.6.8 issue?

Thanks
----------------------------------------------
Chuck
iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2017)|| 16GB Ram || OS/X 10.14.6 || Motu 828MkII || Steinberg UR242 || DP8.07
Macbook Pro (Retina, 13-inch), 2.7 GHz i5, 8GB Ram
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bayswater
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Re: Window Sets / Spaces / Effects

Post by bayswater »

What you see is how it works. Window sets do not keep tracks of Spaces. If you want everything put back in its original Space you have to drag it all manually after DP starts up.

It's a feature some of us would like, but as long as Apple keeps changing the way Spaces works, I can see why MOTU would not do it.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
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Shooshie
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Re: Window Sets / Spaces / Effects

Post by Shooshie »

cleamon wrote:
  • As a side note, invoking a saved window set that had a Kontakt window in it, "minimizes" said Kontakt window.
    Certainly not an expected behavior
    .
Anyone else experiencing any of this. Is this "normal"?
Is this a DP 8.06 issue? Or an OS/X 10.6.8 issue?
I can't address the minimization of open windows when invoking a window set. Is it JUST a Kontact issue? I don't use Kontakt much anymore, so I haven't seen it.

As per the problem of setting up your windows in Spaces every time you open a file, that IS normal. Unfortunately, we have not seen APIs from Apple yet which allow for saving files with their windows distributed through Spaces. My guess is that adding that information to a save might cause incompatibilities now or later, though it sure seems like they could find a way.

My method is simply to invoke Mission Control (F1 on my system), which reveals all open windows in all apps. (I hide other apps before I do this) Then you can drag windows to their relative spaces much like dealing cards at a table. When you do it this way, the windows remember their position within the space, so that when you drop them into that space, they automatically go to the right position. If you drag them the other way (start dragging window, then invoke the command that changes to the next space, then releasing the window) they will go where you drop them, not where they were set up to go.

I know DP would respond a little quicker if I closed all those windows, and in the rare case that I really need that extra power, I do that. Then I bring back all those windows with a window set, and once again distribute them to the spaces.

People ask "well, what's the difference between hitting a key to go to a space vs. hitting a key to open a window set?" My answer is that your work palette evolves as you work each day. You drag an EQ over to the mixer to watch it while you move the fader, or you pop another window out of the CW, or you open a group of plugins together (meters, perhaps) to watch them all as you play back. Any of thousands of combinations can occur. When you move to a space, they are all just as you left them, but your window set will only take you back to the starting position. Window sets don't evolve unless you save a new set. There are other reasons, too, but that one is probably the most convincing for some people.

Spaces may not be for everyone, but I had dozens of window sets, and since learning about Spaces some 7 or 8 years ago, I've only used one of those sets (starting conditions). There simply is no incentive to go back, and every incentive to continue with Spaces and Mission Control. Glad to hear it's working for you, too!

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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bayswater
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Re: Window Sets / Spaces / Effects

Post by bayswater »

Shooshie wrote:My method is simply to invoke Mission Control (F1 on my system), which reveals all open windows in all apps. (I hide other apps before I do this) Then you can drag windows to their relative spaces much like dealing cards at a table.
Did you ever try to do it with Quickeys? I'm spending some time today to see if I can do it with Keyboard Maestro.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
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cleamon
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:19 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Window Sets / Spaces / Effects

Post by cleamon »

Shooshie wrote:
cleamon wrote:
  • As a side note, invoking a saved window set that had a Kontakt window in it, "minimizes" said Kontakt window.
    Certainly not an expected behavior
    .
Anyone else experiencing any of this. Is this "normal"?
Is this a DP 8.06 issue? Or an OS/X 10.6.8 issue?
I can't address the minimization of open windows when invoking a window set. Is it JUST a Kontact issue? I don't use Kontakt much anymore, so I haven't seen it.

As per the problem of setting up your windows in Spaces every time you open a file, that IS normal. Unfortunately, we have not seen APIs from Apple yet which allow for saving files with their windows distributed through Spaces. My guess is that adding that information to a save might cause incompatibilities now or later, though it sure seems like they could find a way.

My method is simply to invoke Mission Control (F1 on my system), which reveals all open windows in all apps. (I hide other apps before I do this) Then you can drag windows to their relative spaces much like dealing cards at a table. When you do it this way, the windows remember their position within the space, so that when you drop them into that space, they automatically go to the right position. If you drag them the other way (start dragging window, then invoke the command that changes to the next space, then releasing the window) they will go where you drop them, not where they were set up to go.

I know DP would respond a little quicker if I closed all those windows, and in the rare case that I really need that extra power, I do that. Then I bring back all those windows with a window set, and once again distribute them to the spaces.

People ask "well, what's the difference between hitting a key to go to a space vs. hitting a key to open a window set?" My answer is that your work palette evolves as you work each day. You drag an EQ over to the mixer to watch it while you move the fader, or you pop another window out of the CW, or you open a group of plugins together (meters, perhaps) to watch them all as you play back. Any of thousands of combinations can occur. When you move to a space, they are all just as you left them, but your window set will only take you back to the starting position. Window sets don't evolve unless you save a new set. There are other reasons, too, but that one is probably the most convincing for some people.

Spaces may not be for everyone, but I had dozens of window sets, and since learning about Spaces some 7 or 8 years ago, I've only used one of those sets (starting conditions). There simply is no incentive to go back, and every incentive to continue with Spaces and Mission Control. Glad to hear it's working for you, too!

Shooshie
Thanks for that. Yeah, I'm pretty sold on using spaces. I had not thought of using Mission Control at the outset to distribute the windows. That's going to make my day.
Thanks again
----------------------------------------------
Chuck
iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2017)|| 16GB Ram || OS/X 10.14.6 || Motu 828MkII || Steinberg UR242 || DP8.07
Macbook Pro (Retina, 13-inch), 2.7 GHz i5, 8GB Ram
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Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
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Re: Window Sets / Spaces / Effects

Post by Shooshie »

bayswater wrote:
Shooshie wrote:My method is simply to invoke Mission Control (F1 on my system), which reveals all open windows in all apps. (I hide other apps before I do this) Then you can drag windows to their relative spaces much like dealing cards at a table.
Did you ever try to do it with Quickeys? I'm spending some time today to see if I can do it with Keyboard Maestro.
I saw your post, and immediately I asked myself the same question. But it was at least 7 years ago, and I honestly don't remember. However, I know me, and that would have been the first thing I tried. Of that, I'm 100% certain. Apparently I never figured out a way to make it work. Might be worth revisiting.

I'm very interested in seeing if you can get KM to work for that task.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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cleamon
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:19 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Window Sets / Spaces / Effects

Post by cleamon »

Shooshie wrote: I can't address the minimization of open windows when invoking a window set. Is it JUST a Kontact issue? I don't use Kontakt much anymore, so I haven't seen it.

Shooshie
Yeah, it's just Kontakt (so far). It's easy enough to re-open (shift-cmd-V). Found that one by accident. Didn't realize "Edit V-Rack" was a command in an effects window.

Thanks
----------------------------------------------
Chuck
iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, 2017)|| 16GB Ram || OS/X 10.14.6 || Motu 828MkII || Steinberg UR242 || DP8.07
Macbook Pro (Retina, 13-inch), 2.7 GHz i5, 8GB Ram
User avatar
Shooshie
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
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Re: Window Sets / Spaces / Effects

Post by Shooshie »

For what it's worth, here's a post in the DP Tips Sheet regarding Spaces and DP. If ever you want to describe it to someone, it may be easier to point them to that, which also includes a link to a video on YouTube.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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