Tap Tempo Issue

[cowtothesky]

Hi all,
There is a good chance that this is something I caused, but is anyone else noticing a problem with tap tempo? When I click on it, it causes my track window to jump around and it lags the tap tempo key so that you can't click on it until the track window catches up.
Thanks,
Dave

[Shooshie]

I haven't used it in a while, but first of all, are you using it with audio? Are there plugins involved? Anything that might lag the system?

What is your buffer set to?

Shoosh

[cowtothesky]

I have buffer setting at 512.

This is something different. I went a while without using it. Used to work great. But now, it is causing my track window to jump all over the place. I guess it is taking the tap tempo data and transferring me to different measures. This creates a lag and causes the tap tempo to not work. I still can't figure it out. I just stopped using it. Would be nice to know if it is working as intended on other systems.

[Kurt Cowling]

Are you recording your tap tempo map into the conductor track? I've found that when I do that, the metronome click sound starts to lag behind. If I tap in my tempo map with the audio click off it ends up working fine.

[stubbsonic]

I've had serious problems trying to record tap tempo into the conductor track when there is audio. Usually for me it is an issue where the audio just doesn't start playing back until maybe 5-20 bars in. I usually just have to keep trying until it works.

[Shooshie]

Are you recording your tap tempo map into the conductor track? I've found that when I do that, the metronome click sound starts to lag behind. If I tap in my tempo map with the audio click off it ends up working fine.

Could you explain that a little better? Where else CAN you record Tap Tempo? It's a conductor track thing.

So, if you record tap tempo using the audio count-off, it all works? Is that consistent?
I've found that it helps to mimic working in old Performer files from 20 years ago. That is, a light load, small buffer, little or no audio, NO instruments or plugins. I try to use external MIDI rack instruments for setting the tempos with Tap Tempo.

I wish MOTU would devote some time to fine tuning Tap Tempo. I think it must work on very simple files — the kind that a programmer might throw together to test it. But it does not work well at all for anything larger than a small MIDI file, basically, and it certainly does not work with audio and plugins. I don't know if that's even possible, given the lag, but I don't know that it isn't. I wish MOTU would spend some time at it!

Shooshie

[Kurt Cowling]

Could you explain that a little better? Where else CAN you record Tap Tempo? It's a conductor track thing.

As opposed to using tap tempo in a live situation (to have MIDI tracks follow a live performance).

Here's how I use tap tempo:

1. To make a conductor track follow a prerecorded performance. This works OK, but I need to turn off the audio metronome because it starts to fall behind. I only listen to the audio track and tap along. (I also don't listen to the MIDI tracks. Maybe they fall behind along with the click?)

2. To conduct a MIDI track to a performance that's in my head. I haven't done this in a while, but it worked well last time I tried it (maybe DP 6?). Maybe I'll try it again and see what happens.

Hope that clarifies my comment, which was only to add that turning off the audio metronome helps because that seems to be broken.

--Kurt

[Shooshie]

Could you explain that a little better? Where else CAN you record Tap Tempo? It's a conductor track thing.

As opposed to using tap tempo in a live situation (to have MIDI tracks follow a live performance).

Here's how I use tap tempo:

1. To make a conductor track follow a prerecorded performance. This works OK, but I need to turn off the audio metronome because it starts to fall behind. I only listen to the audio track and tap along. (I also don't listen to the MIDI tracks. Maybe they fall behind along with the click?)

2. To conduct a MIDI track to a performance that's in my head. I haven't done this in a while, but it worked well last time I tried it (maybe DP 6?). Maybe I'll try it again and see what happens.

Hope that clarifies my comment, which was only to add that turning off the audio metronome helps because that seems to be broken.

--Kurt

1) That's called Adjust Beats, and works differently than Tap Tempo
2) THAT'S Tap Tempo.

Thanks for clarifying.

Shoosh

[Kurt Cowling]

1) That's called Adjust Beats, and works differently than Tap Tempo
2) THAT'S Tap Tempo.

Thanks for clarifying.

Shoosh

Your welcome, but apparently I didn't clarify very well.

Instead of "pre-recorded performance" I should have said "audio track of a pre-recorded performance", not a MIDI performance. My examples of #1 and #2 are both tap tempo. The only difference is that one has an audio track I'm trying to match and the other doesn't.

I know what adjust beats is (and have used it), but I wasn't talking about adjust beats (although I might use adjust beats after tapping along with the audio track to fine tune things).

I haven't had a chance to try the things I mentioned earlier (regarding the audio click falling behind), so maybe I can try those today.

I have not had the graphic issues mentioned by the OP, at least not that I've noticed.

--Kurt

[Shooshie]

Thanks! I think we're clear now. Sorry I didn't get that first time around, but it's these WORDS, you know? They're always getting in the way of what we mean! If life were just music, it would be so much easier. (not!)

I haven't had the occasion to use Tap Tempo since I upgraded to Mavericks, so I'll have to do that and see how it's performing. I used to use it several times per week, if not per day, and back in those days it was flawless. Took a little getting used to, but once you did, you could conduct it like the New York Phil! Now, it seems different with every release, and never like it was back then. I guess it's just not a MOTU priority.

Shoosh

[cowtothesky]

Thanks guys. Please let me know once you try it out if it is still working on your systems.

I only use tap tempo to get an approximate bpm of something i'm writing. I will hear it in my head and tap the tempo to get a general tempo to put in the conductor track. Pretty simple use, but it isn't working on my system due to it causing my track window to jump around when tapping it.

I should also mention that I have a large 90 - 100 minute film loaded up as well. I don't know why having a large project loaded up would have any affect on it, but someone mentioned issues with larger projects.

[stubbsonic]

Tap Tempo doesn't work right on my system (DP 8.07/OS 10.9.5). Older versions of DP/OS would allow me to tap tempo and the MIDI tracks would keep up and follow the taps fairly closely.

Later versions would work with MIDI, but audio tracks would sometimes take up to 15 seconds before they would begin playing.

Now it is not even close. Playback after taps might be what I actually tapped in, but during playback it is not even recognizable as tracking my tempo. The MIDI is so far behind (more than 2 beats?) and it responds to changes but not at the same tempo and taking several beats to register any changes. Not usable.

Too bad. When it works (as it did before) it was a quite useful feature. We've talked about how tricky it must be to make it work, but something clearly got broken in recent versions.

Project/Conductor/Record Beats... doesn't appear to be working right either, but I had not used this method (which just seemed to be the same thing as Tap Tempo).

[Shooshie]

Project/Conductor/Record Beats... doesn't appear to be working right either, but I had not used this method (which just seemed to be the same thing as Tap Tempo).

Tap Tempo destructively changes all the tempos in a conductor track, creating a whole new performance of the MIDI tracks.

Record Beats leaves the performance intact (if you select the box that says "Preserve realtime performance") and alters beat and barline locations, while adjusting note-lengths to accommodate these changes without altering the performance. Record Beats is non-destructive of the performance.

Tap Tempo has had a troubled life. For the first ten years or so, it worked beautifully. Then when OS X came along, it didn't work at all, at first. Ever since then there have been ups and downs. At one point you could make it work by entering the highest possible tempo as the starting tempo. Then there was a period in which it nearly worked, and sometimes DID work. Apparently it's back in the pits again.

Trouble is, when I report this to MOTU (as I have done many times since DP4) they always act as if it's working. Maybe it works for a few bars set up to test it. But for a large template in a long piece with many drastic tempo changes, Tap Tempo DOES NOT WORK. My goodness, if it worked, we'd know that by now! After 10 years of being broken, it's high time that MOTU employed a programmer with the brains and determination to fix it. (Hint: collaborate with an actual musician.)

Shooshie

[stubbsonic]

I know it might be kind of harsh, but maybe we could post a few videos of it malfunctioning.

I suppose the worst case scenario is that they just remove it as a feature.

Is there another DAW or MIDI sequencer with a good working tap tempo? Maybe I could export an SMF, tap the tempo map, then reimport.

[stubbsonic]

Here's an interesting side-bit. In the tempo mode list, there is the "Tap Pad" which must be clicked upon. As far as tempo goes, it kind of works, but audio from the VI's get's chopped with every tap. (Also, I don't think it can be recorded into the conductor, but I may be wrong about that).