Beat Quantizing - What Am I Doing Wrong?

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Todzilla
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Beat Quantizing - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Post by Todzilla »

Trying to quantize multi-tracks of drums. Here's what I'm doing:
  • Ensuring beats have been created in drums tracks. Yes, I can see their gray vertical bars in the tracks.
  • Selecting all the drums tracks I wish to quantize.
  • Using Audio->Beats->Copy Beats.
  • Selecting a track (let's say the overheads) as a Copy Beat source.
  • Then, I go to Region->Quantize and choose "Beats within Soundbites"
  • I hit Apply and nothing happens
Note that during all of this, nothing appears in the Background Processing window and nothing lags for a second or two, as I would expect from intense calculation. And my drums are as sloppy as ever.

Am I selecting tracks and not Soundbites?

Please advise if anyone has had success with this. I assume I may need to adjust beats, remove some, add others, but I would think at least it would change the tracks if I'm doing it remotely accurately. Since nothing changes at all, I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong. I've followed steps in the manual to the best of my ability to no effect.

I've watched the video of this on YouTube, but it didn't involve copying Beats.

Thanks in Advance.
-Todzilla
Huge sound generation & capture facilities
On the banks of the River Eno
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Booter
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Re: Beat Quantizing - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Post by Booter »

I haven't done this in a long time but I used to do it a lot. I don't remember it doing nothing but maybe you've got the pitch options off. I think it uses the pitch audio processing to quantize.
When I sued it, I remember that the trick to get good results was to find some beats and turn them off. Sometimes the drums would be quantized Ok for almost the whole thing but one section would be awful. It would have a bunch of weird distortion. If you turn off some of the extra beats in that area, the distortion would go away.
What version of DP are you using?
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Todzilla
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Re: Beat Quantizing - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Post by Todzilla »

Booter,

Thanks!

Im using 8.06, but have experienced this same problem with earlier versions of DP.

At this point, I'm trying to get the system to do anything, even badly quantized drums, just so I can start fine tuning, but nothing seems to work. I suspect the problem is fairly early in my workflow.
-Todzilla
Huge sound generation & capture facilities
On the banks of the River Eno
__________________________________________________
DP 8!!!, OSX 10.7.3, 15" MacBook Pro w 16G RAM 256G SSD & 630GHD, MOTU 896HD, MX4, Komplete 8, Apogee Symphony I/O, Neumann U-89, pair of Peluso P12s, Seventh Circle & Demeter preamps, Lava lamp, stuffed frog playing bongos
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fgagne
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Re: Beat Quantizing - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Post by fgagne »

Did you do a 'adjust sequence to soundbites tempo' (or the reverse/vice-versa)?

I think the trick is making sure that the conductor track gets some info it can use.

Just out of curiosity, and I don't mean to hijack the thread but does anyone know of some other software that does the whole 'adjust beats'/tempo map/quantize' thing?

I'm doing some tempo mapping to a particularly odd song (in terms of meter changes, etc.) and I've come to the conclusion that it's simply a really kludgey process.

Just wondering if it's somewhat easier and/or cut and dried in some other software?
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Shooshie
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Re: Beat Quantizing - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Post by Shooshie »

Logic will do that. I found it kludgy there, too, but that was about 6 years ago. They may have improved it since then. The sad thing is that it used to be just about perfect in DP. That was quite a while back, though.

Some tips:
To RECORD BEATS:
  • • Create a clean mix with no plugins. You can do that in the Mixing Board. If you don't already use saved mixes, then DUPLICATE the mix you've already got. That will copy your current mix to a mix file that you can save and restore later. After you do that, create a new mix. It should be blank, with no plugins.
    • Turn off automation, too.
    • Try to make DP operate as a MIDI sequencer.
    • If you need to adjust to a soundbite, then bounce a two-track that you can use without plugins or automation, and disable all other audio. (not just turn off play-enable. Use the Enable/Disable radio button to disable all other audio. Option-clicking your two-track's "Enable" button should make it the only one standing.
    • Set the buffer as low as possible, such as 64 samples.
    • Be sure to turn off pre-roll, post-roll, and anything else that processes time.
When you've got things as close as possible to MIDI-only, then you may have better luck with Record Beats, if you wish to use that.

Personally, I find that Adjust Beats is the fastest, most reliable way to do that. If you do use it, set the dialog to "preserve original performance" and use one MIDI track to do the adjustment in. You can create a temporary track that has been merged from the entire MIDI component, so that you can see all the MIDI activity while using only one MIDI track. Put that track next to the Conductor Track, and magnify the tempo pane of the Conductor Track.

As you adjust beats, you will come across syncopations or rests where nothing is happening on the beat you're adjusting. That's where the conductor track comes in. Adjust the beat until the tempos around it flatten out as you'd expect them to be if the song continued as performed. That's how you know you've got the beat in the right place when there is nothing to snap the beat to.

Adjust Beats goes quickly if you adjust bars first, then go back and do individual beats. If you've got mixed meter, set up your meter changes first, according to your score, not the actual performance. You're going for barlines already set up for the expected beats within the bars. When you adjust beats, you're going to have to make them come out within the metric changes.

I won't tell you that it goes quickly, but it's all relative. Once you get the hang of it, you an usually do a 3 - 5 minute song in about 15 minutes. That's 15 minutes well-spent.

If you have questions, feel free to ask. Perhaps start another thread on Adjusting Beats.

Shooshie
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fgagne
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Re: Beat Quantizing - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Post by fgagne »

Shooshie, in order to not hijack Todzilla's thread, I started a new thread about this here:
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =1&t=58692
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Todzilla
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Re: Beat Quantizing - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Post by Todzilla »

fgagne wrote:Did you do a 'adjust sequence to soundbites tempo' (or the reverse/vice-versa)?

I think the trick is making sure that the conductor track gets some info it can use.

Just out of curiosity, and I don't mean to hijack the thread but does anyone know of some other software that does the whole 'adjust beats'/tempo map/quantize' thing?

I'm doing some tempo mapping to a particularly odd song (in terms of meter changes, etc.) and I've come to the conclusion that it's simply a really kludgey process.

Just wondering if it's somewhat easier and/or cut and dried in some other software?
Not sure I understand. I've already played everything to a click, and drums are a bit off the click, owing to my hamfisted playing.

Is that what you mean? Because the tempo of the song is just a straight 120 BPM and all the tracks are playing manually to a click or quantized MIDI to the tempo.
-Todzilla
Huge sound generation & capture facilities
On the banks of the River Eno
__________________________________________________
DP 8!!!, OSX 10.7.3, 15" MacBook Pro w 16G RAM 256G SSD & 630GHD, MOTU 896HD, MX4, Komplete 8, Apogee Symphony I/O, Neumann U-89, pair of Peluso P12s, Seventh Circle & Demeter preamps, Lava lamp, stuffed frog playing bongos
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Re: Beat Quantizing - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Post by cbergm7210 »

Mac Pro 2.66GHz Dual Quad Core Nahalem, 16 Gigs RAM, DP 9, RME Fireface 800, MOTU MIDIexpress 128, Mac OS 10.8.5

http://www.rfjmusic.com
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