Side-chain compression without the Dynamics plugin?

[dix]

Is side-chain compression only available with DP's Dynamics plugin? Is there a way to get third party plugins to accept side-chain inputs? ...Specifically, UAD plugins and/or Waves L3. If not those, are there other third party compressors that would work for this?

Thanks!

[Shooshie]

Is side-chain compression only available with DP's Dynamics plugin? Is there a way to get third party plugins to accept side-chain inputs? ...Specifically, UAD plugins and/or Waves L3. If not those, are there other third party compressors that would work for this?

Thanks!

15 years ago, when I was learning Waves plugins, side chaining was done with the 2nd channel of a stereo pair. You chose which channel would be the side chain, and I think that meant you had to process a full stereo pair with 4 channels, two plugin instances. (Since both channels of a stereo pair were likely to be controlled by a single channel of side-chaining, I'm not sure that's a valid assumption, and I don't remember what Waves said about it) It was a complicated arrangement, but it got around the fact that side-chaining presented some kind of unholy problem in plugins. This was Waves arrangement, not MOTU's. They did this for all their side-chaining plugins for all platforms. I guess if anything it provided consistency while getting around the variety of workarounds that different platforms might offer. Obviously MOTU offered a side-chaining method, because their own Dynamics plugin did it. You just chose the bus and there it was. Why Waves couldn't also adopt such an easy method is beyond me.

Things change. Now, I think some of their plugins side chain by choosing a bus. I'll have to read up on it, but I think that's what I remember from the H-EQ. I remember not getting very far when I set out to do it, but I don't remember if it was because of lack of time or complications.

Anyway, putting my reply in a nutshell, side-chaining is unavoidably a plugin-by-plugin affair, and apparently it's not within the capacity of any DAW to enable side-chaining for all plugins that want it. It's not necessarily difficult to do it, but you have to read the manual for each plugin. It's not DP's call.

Shooshie

[dix]

side-chaining is unavoidably a plugin-by-plugin affair, and apparently it's not within the capacity of any DAW to enable side-chaining for all plugins that want it. It's not necessarily difficult to do it, but you have to read the manual for each plugin. It's not DP's call.

This basically answers my question. I was thinking there may have been a bussing scheme I hadn't thought of.

My goal is to make individual stems retain the dynamics of the full mix. Sending off stems that are processed separately sound different than all of them hitting the compressor at the same time, sometimes dramatically so. Looks like there are a few compressor plugins out there that allow sidechain (FabFilter Pro-C is one), but ideally I'd like to apply my preferred master-buss chain (UAD Fairchild 670>Slate VTM>WavesL3) to the stems. Is there another (in-the-box) way to achieve this effect or are we not there yet?

Thanks!

[Dan Worley]

Is there another (in-the-box) way to achieve this effect ...

I can't think of one. Side-chaining is the only way it seems possible to me, but like you say, your processors of choice don't have it available.

If you know you're going to deliver stems and you want it to be dead on accurate, maybe the best thing to do is to mix and process with stems. ???

Very interesting observation. I never thought about it before.

[dix]

Yes, seems like with so many people using DP for filmscore that this issue would come up more often. As it is, if I want the final to sound like the two track mix, with the dynamics, saturation, pumping etc. I need to send the stems without bus compression and communicate to the rerecording mixer the intention and hope they have the plugins, the brains and the ears to recreate the sound of the mix.

Guess I'll make the suggestion to MOTU. Seems like if Dynamics can do it others could too.

[Prime Mover]

Waves Renaissance Comp allows for side chain. And if you're into Dynamic EQing, Waves C6 has a side chain variant, and is probably the closest thing you'll find to L3 in a compressor. R Comp is incredibly versatile, it can sound like a smooth digital or an optical oppressor (ala LA-3A).

[dix]

Thanks. I'll check them out. I own the Ren plugins, but never upgraded. I'm probably eligible for an upgrade path. ...I'm wondering if there might be a Bidule solution too. Though I can't imagine what it'd be.

[I just realized I meant this to be in "Usage, Techniques, Tips & Optimization". James or Shooshie, please feel free to move it. It might get more attention.]

[Prime Mover]

I doubt there's a Bidule solution involving normal plugins. You have to build a side chain into the plugin to be able to use it like that. Unless you can separate the signal path, if it's the kind that always compresses the detector signal, than there's NOTHING you can do. There's a few oddball stereo plugs where you can send a mono signal in and have it effect the second channel, but you have to do some crazy routing, use a few busses, and it's no better than the worst side chain comps.

Just try getting your head around doing it in an audio editor (Premiere, FCP), which don't typically have any kind of busses at all... you can just submix to particular channels. There ARE crazy workarounds to be able to duck, but they're... crazy.