If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by frankf »

+1 Bays, you've explained this much more clearly than I did.
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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by Killahurts »

James Steele wrote: As the forum owner, I'm happy any time there's one less thread that starts off with "[DAW Name] does it this way... why can't I do it the same way in DP?" It would maybe help the discussion move on to how to best use what we have.)
I'm glad you brought that up James. I don't know of any other DAW that does what I'm about to write.. not even close.

It might be nice to have a dedicated VI track that works more smartly with its associated MIDI tracks. e.g. I could select just some MIDI notes, or a track, or multiple tracks, and be able to freeze or bounce them to an audio track, without having to select the VI track as well. i.e. the MIDI track "knows" the VI track it is associated with. This especially would work well for those of us who use VI racks.

Second, and even more important, there needs to be a "VI Merge" (like the audio merge), Where you can do this:

Convert a VI track, via Freeze or BTD, without the fader/gain and without plugins applied, just a simple command that renders the selected MIDI into audio. The newly created track has everything the VI track did, via track duplication, including plugins, volume, pan, etc.

This could work for every MIDI track you have on that VI. e.g., I have 7 MIDI tracks going to one VI. I could select each MIDI track and render it to (7) different audio tracks, per the MIDI I have selected.. or, select all 7 tracks and render the whole thing, in the same way. Just thinking out loud..

Thats composer power, for what I've got going on here. Just my $.02
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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by bayswater »

If you think having a single track for MIDI and a VI is odd, have a look at Eli's video on MIDI in Aux tracks. Yes, Logic can record and play MIDI from Aux tracks. This is done so you can set up a multitimbral VI and do everything in one track. For whatever reason Apple chose to the the Aux tracks that receive audio from the VI. You can record and play back the MIDI from it, use if for effects in the inserts and sends, and do all the automation there too. One track to rule them all.

What is actually going on in that track, how the routing works, and so on, is very confusing. Conceptually it makes no sense. It looks really kludgy. But if you don't think about it, it works. And it would pretty much do what Killahurts wants to do. Time selection in the VI/MIDI/Aux track. Bounce to disk. Done.

Here it is: http://www.groove3.com/str/player.php?i ... 6632583423#
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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by James Steele »

bayswater wrote:...if you don't think about it, it works.
Hehehe... I'm too OCD for that to ever fit my modus operandi! :lol:
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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by Michael Canavan »

bayswater wrote:If you think having a single track for MIDI and a VI is odd, have a look at Eli's video on MIDI in Aux tracks. Yes, Logic can record and play MIDI from Aux tracks. This is done so you can set up a multitimbral VI and do everything in one track. For whatever reason Apple chose to the the Aux tracks that receive audio from the VI. You can record and play back the MIDI from it, use if for effects in the inserts and sends, and do all the automation there too. One track to rule them all.

What is actually going on in that track, how the routing works, and so on, is very confusing. Conceptually it makes no sense. It looks really kludgy. But if you don't think about it, it works. And it would pretty much do what Killahurts wants to do. Time selection in the VI/MIDI/Aux track. Bounce to disk. Done.

Here it is: http://www.groove3.com/str/player.php?i ... 6632583423#
The link goes to Bitwig Studio. Having used Logic for a number of years, I'm not following any of what you said there? From what I know Logic is actually less flexible than DP in terms of MIDI routing. Mostly due to Audio Units being long in the tooth at this point. For instance VST 2.4 can route MIDI from one instrument track to another in DP, without a MIDI track. This is useful for Drum machine style VI's like Geist for instance. Say you want to use a drum synth for the kick in a track in Geist etc.
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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by daniel.sneed »

IMOE, DP MIDI implementation is just fine right now. It does make sense in my actual workflow:
- V-racks to host VIs
- MIDI tracks to host MIDI notes, MIDI PLUGINS and MIDI AUTOMATION!
- Aux tracks, or audio tracks, to host audio plugins and audio automation.

So, to make it short: many things, yes, but to handle many tasks. What did you expect?
Hey, take it easy, you could use some EDM software in case you're afraid of biting the whole musical bullet...

Where I'd just like to see Motu improve things in some update, is MIDI plugins choice, specially real-time plugins.
I've already sent some suggestions to Motu about it.
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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by bayswater »

Michael Canavan wrote: The link goes to Bitwig Studio.
Sorry about that. I guess the links are temporary. To see it, go to the Logic X Tips and Tricks and see the second video under Workflow, near the top of the list.
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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by Timeline »

How about a link lock connecting the MIDI track/tracks so they could be moved together with VIs in the mixer or appear or disappear via folders. Am i missing something? When i select a V-rk it comes up with no automation control mutes or sends unlike a VI return. I just started to use them.
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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by frankf »

Timeline wrote:How about a link lock connecting the MIDI track/tracks so they could be moved together with VIs in the mixer or appear or disappear via folders. Am i missing something? When i select a V-rk it comes up with no automation control mutes or sends unlike a VI return. I just started to use them.
It may be best to think of a VI v-rack as set it and forget it, and only use your MIDI and aux (or audio) tracks. And here's a tip: with all AU virtual instruments outputs 1-2 are assigned to the instrument track itself. You won't see them in DP's Bundles window>Instruments tab. So assign the VI's output to a bus and name the bus VIx 1-2, then create an aux with bus VIx1-2 as input. Set and forget VIx in the v-rack and automate the aux you just created.
HTH


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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by Shooshie »

frankf wrote:
Timeline wrote:How about a link lock connecting the MIDI track/tracks so they could be moved together with VIs in the mixer or appear or disappear via folders. Am i missing something? When i select a V-rk it comes up with no automation control mutes or sends unlike a VI return. I just started to use them.
It may be best to think of a VI v-rack as set it and forget it, and only use your MIDI and aux (or audio) tracks. And here's a tip: with all AU virtual instruments outputs 1-2 are assigned to the instrument track itself. You won't see them in DP's Bundles window>Instruments tab. So assign the VI's output to a bus and name the bus VIx 1-2, then create an aux with bus VIx1-2 as input. Set and forget VIx in the v-rack and automate the aux you just created.
HTH


Frank Ferrucci
That's a pretty accurate way of looking at V-Racks. However, I do leave my V-Rack windows open most of the time in other Spaces. For example, I'll have a string section with five VSL Pro interfaces showing (Violins 1&2, Viola, Cello, Bass) so that I can get at them quickly to note or change the keyswitching, or to try things out for greater expression. My Wallander interfaces are also open in their own Space, but I rarely go to them, which is a shame because I forget so much over time. They're all set up, the product of years of tweaking, but I have to explore them to remember WHY they're set the way they are. I tend to use the same V-Racks from project to project, so I'm always learning stuff.

But once you've got everything working in a particular file, there's not much reason to revisit the V-Racks. Eventually I may close them all and just concentrate on making music, but I don't feel like I've mastered VSL well enough to forget it yet!

But I'm probably confusing the issue here; if you want automation and such from a V-Rack instrument, your options are Aux and Audio tracks, or MIDI CC commands which can either be assigned to or learned by your instruments in the V-Rack. I don't buy instruments anymore unless they are pretty good about MIDI-Learn, unless I've just got to have it and there aren't any other options.

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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by Timeline »

Like Shooshie I'm using them project to project. I wonder what the big deal would be to just make them work like other return VIs and save us the extra steps? I especially like going back to older sessions where say a VSL combination of instruments were great and using them again years later. Anyway thanks for the suggestions frank and Shoosh.
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If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by frankf »

Shooshie wrote:
frankf wrote:
Timeline wrote:How about a link lock connecting the MIDI track/tracks so they could be moved together with VIs in the mixer or appear or disappear via folders. Am i missing something? When i select a V-rk it comes up with no automation control mutes or sends unlike a VI return. I just started to use them.
It may be best to think of a VI v-rack as set it and forget it, and only use your MIDI and aux (or audio) tracks. And here's a tip: with all AU virtual instruments outputs 1-2 are assigned to the instrument track itself. You won't see them in DP's Bundles window>Instruments tab. So assign the VI's output to a bus and name the bus VIx 1-2, then create an aux with bus VIx1-2 as input. Set and forget VIx in the v-rack and automate the aux you just created.
HTH


Frank Ferrucci
That's a pretty accurate way of looking at V-Racks. However, I do leave my V-Rack windows open most of the time in other Spaces. For example, I'll have a string section with five VSL Pro interfaces showing (Violins 1&2, Viola, Cello, Bass) so that I can get at them quickly to note or change the keyswitching, or to try things out for greater expression. My Wallander interfaces are also open in their own Space, but I rarely go to them, which is a shame because I forget so much over time. They're all set up, the product of years of tweaking, but I have to explore them to remember WHY they're set the way they are. I tend to use the same V-Racks from project to project, so I'm always learning stuff.

But once you've got everything working in a particular file, there's not much reason to revisit the V-Racks. Eventually I may close them all and just concentrate on making music, but I don't feel like I've mastered VSL well enough to forget it yet!

But I'm probably confusing the issue here; if you want automation and such from a V-Rack instrument, your options are Aux and Audio tracks, or MIDI CC commands which can either be assigned to or learned by your instruments in the V-Rack. I don't buy instruments anymore unless they are pretty good about MIDI-Learn, unless I've just got to have it and there aren't any other options.

Shooshie
Shooshie,
Do you know the Command "Open Instrument" ? Select a MIDI track assigned to a VI and invoke this command and the VI window for that track will pop open. I don't have to go to the v-rack and click on the insert to get to the VI interface. I can tweak something and close it up again or leave it open, whatever. I don't think there's a default command for it. I use cmd-opt-ctrl-O.



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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by Killahurts »

Where is that command? Can't find it in the manual or menus..
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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by Shooshie »

frankf wrote:Shooshie,
Do you know the Command "Open Instrument" ? Select a MIDI track assigned to a VI and invoke this command and the VI window for that track will pop open. I don't have to go to the v-rack and click on the insert to get to the VI interface. I can tweak something and close it up again or leave it open, whatever. I don't think there's a default command for it. I use cmd-opt-ctrl-O.
Yeah, I know of it, but because I leave my instrument windows open, I haven't really integrated that into my workflow. But if you need to keep the instrument windows closed, that's the best way to get to them! I found that by accident, and I've found others by accident that I never figured out what I did to get there. (didn't try too hard) It's cool knowing there are things yet to be discovered, and always a surprise when others post things I haven't seen before.

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Re: If DP added a MIDI/VI track option would you like it?

Post by Michael Canavan »

bayswater wrote:
Michael Canavan wrote: The link goes to Bitwig Studio.
Sorry about that. I guess the links are temporary. To see it, go to the Logic X Tips and Tricks and see the second video under Workflow, near the top of the list.
Just watched it. that's some wild stuff there! Not at all like Logic 8 routing wise.
Seems pretty cool, but you can't record into Aux tracks, so to eventually record those parts you're going to have to route them to regular audio tracks or bounce them all separately.

To do the same thing in DP you could simply wait until the very end to break up the multi into separate audio tracks. So Kontakt in a V-Rack pointed at an Aux track in that same V-rack, and MIDI channels in the Sequence. Considering Kontakt, Aria, MachFive etc. have built in mixers it's not a huge improvement IMO to have the MIDI reside in separate Aux tracks.
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