Monitoring during recording - why don't I hear all channels?

[tonomud]

I've done a couple of location gigs recently and have been reminded of an issue that has been affecting my setup for quite some time now. It's annoying, and I'm sure is probably a simple setting that I'm not aware of. So I thought I'd post it here to see what suggestions you folks might have for fixing it.

Had a session last evening with a vocal group of 11 singers, each close-mic'ed. Variety of mics - several AKG 414's, EV RE20's, CAD E100's, Rode NTK, etc. Here's my signal chain:

Mics > 16 channel snake > chan 1-8 into True Systems Precision 8 > Apogee Rosetta 800 (via DB25) > into Motu 8 Pre (via ADAT) > into Macbook Pro (via Firewire) > into DP 8.06 (MOTU Audio Driver v1.6 60625).

chan 9-16 go directly into the Pre's on the 8 Pre, and then follow the first 8 channels into the computer. I'm using ADAT as my clock source in DP. Recording 44khz/24bit, if it matters. Mac is running 10.9.4 with all the updates.

I get all the mics/channels up and running, open up the "Audio Monitor" panel in DP to verify that we're getting signal in each channel. Walk around to each mic while recording to verify that we've got a clean signal. Listen back in DP on my headphones through the 8 Pre. All sounds/looks Ok. Nice waveforms, VU meters in DP looking good. OK.

Group arrives, get them to warm up a bit while I set levels. Levels look good in VU meters on screen in DP (and on both mic pre's). But as I listen through the 'phones, I'm not hearing all the channels. I'm maybe hearing 2/3 of them. So, for instance, I can hear from channels 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 11 (those aren't the specific channels, but just an example), but I get nothing from 3, 7, 8, 10 through the phones. I can solo specific channels during recording and I still get nothing on the 1/3 of the channels that aren't being sent through the phones. Hit record, watch all 11 channels recording. VU meters look good, waveforms in the Sequence look good. Stop recording, listen to playback, it sounds wonderful. All channels come through as I'd expect. But during recording, some of the channels simply don't come through the phones. We also recorded with a smaller subset of the group--4 singers. And for that configuration, I could monitor 2 of the 4 channels while recording. And again, sounded great on playback.

All 11 tracks are record-enabled, all mics are working, obviously, as I can verify that during playback. What is going on? Is there some monitoring setting that I'm simply missing? Am I pushing my hardware too hard and so it simply drops channels randomly. Is there some limitation either in software or in my specific hardware setup that means I simply lack the ability to monitor all channels while recording?

Any tips or follow-up questions you have are appreciated. Thanks!

[HCMarkus]

Are you monitoring through the 8Pre's CueMix (the built-in software-controlled hardware mixer)? If so, check your CueMix settings; they are independent from DP.

[tonomud]

CueMix has never been part of my workflow, since the 8 Pre doesn't really support its usage. In fact, beyond opening up the program to ensure that it doesn't do much with an 8 Pre, I've not spent more time with it. I just opened it up again with my interface plugged in. It sees all 16 channels (8 from the 8Pre, and 8 via ADAT from the Precision 8/Apogee 800). All of the solo and mute buttons were in the off position, indicating that they should all be "on" in terms of passthrough audio.

edit: I should also mention that if I'm not looking for the correct settings in CueMix, let me know. I haven't spent much time learning how to use it since I can't really use it.

[rockitcity]

You can still use Cue Mix with the 8pre, you just won't have any of the FX you have available with newer MOTU interfaces. However, DP basically does the same thing as Cue Mix if you have Hardware Monitor Through enabled in DP preferences.

Sounds to me like you may have some channels muted in your DP mixer window or your input monitor setting in DP is set for Automatic. You should probably set it for Input Only while recording unless you are doing overdubs.

Sorry, not in front of DP right now so I can't recall exactly where these settings are in the menu, but they are probably in your hardware setups somewhere.

[tonomud]

Hardware monitoring is enabled in DP, input monitor is set to input only. 100% sure that no channels were muted in the DP mixer or track panels.

I know there's likely a certain amount of difference in apparent loudness between different mics and sources, but if I'm working with 10 vocalists and even when going through and soloing channels one at a time, I should be able to clearly monitor each singer. I simply can't.

If it's a matter of some sort of hardware limitation with the 8Pre, I'll get a different interface. I'm open to recommendations on how I should troubleshoot this pesky issue.

[mikehalloran]

What is your buffer setting? I have the exact issue you do but I track with a 256k buffer. I always figured that was the issue but never confirmed it. I first noticed it in DP 7.

[HCMarkus]

So why not try using CueMix directly? I do all the time and it works great with as many channels as I have inputs on my 828mkII. You won't have direct hardware monitoring available in DP with any other brand interface anyway.

[mikehalloran]

So why not try using CueMix directly? I do all the time and it works great with as many channels as I have inputs on my 828mkII. You won't have direct hardware monitoring available in DP with any other brand interface anyway.

I am only answering for myself. I haven't needed it since I have no issue with not being able to monitor everything. I do very little tracking in DP.

Nearly all of my tracking is done remotely. Currently, I use a Zoom R24 with various preamps or a Mackie 1402vlz3. I then dump the results into DP through the SD card.

On the rare occasions that I track 'in house', I'm replacing the bass line or adding a vocal or two, perhaps another guitar. A 128k or 256k buffer lowers the latency enough that it's not an issue. I monitor the rhythm section only or, more often the 3-6 acoustic tracks I recorded with the Zoom.

In other words, I'm lazy. I have always figured that, if monitoring all tracks while recording became an issue, I would take the time to set up CueMix properly. So far, it isn't. Perhaps if/when I get an interface that can use CueMix FX but, till then...