Shifting and/or moving MIDI data

[Todzilla]

I'm still trying to understand the behavior to make this question as precise as possible, but I'm having problems moving MIDI data via the Tracks window.

I'll do a select all (Apple A), then use the selection parameters to limit the start of a range and time and put a super large number at the end of the range (to move the last part of an entire project backwards in time). Then I'll either drag all those tracks earlier or later, or I'll use the Edit->Shift Command to move them precisely and en masse.

When I do this with audio data, all is good. But there are times, the MIDI data allows "pasted over" data to appear in the holes (if that makes sense), and sometimes seems to intermingle with underlying data, creating much havoc. And when the havoc is subtle enough, I can move forward on other changes and then have the awkward decision of losing all those subsequent changes just to retain the MIDI sanity.

• Does this make sense?
• Has anyone else experienced this?
• Is there a safer way to move large bunches of MIDI tracks earlier or later in time?

Thanks

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Using the tracks overview to move data is like rearranging furniture by dragging it around on a rug.

Go to the sequence or MIDI Editor and use the track selector to show only the data tracks you want to move and select it. If you need to reference other data use the track selector to add those tracks after selecting the target data then drag or use the method you prefer to move the selected data. Fast, easy, precise, and reliable.

[Todzilla]

Using the tracks overview to move data is like rearranging furniture by dragging it around on a rug.

Go to the sequence or MIDI Editor and use the track selector to show only the data tracks you want to move and select it. If you need to reference other data use the track selector to add those tracks after selecting the target data then drag or use the method you prefer to move the selected data. Fast, easy, precise, and reliable.

Thanks MLC!

And your metaphor is perfect!

[stubbsonic]

Though what you are trying to do should be possible.

Perhaps having the view filter for the Tracks Overview set so some data is not visible means that those invisibles won't be selected for shifting.

That said, MLC's advice is of course spot on.

[Shooshie]

The Tracks Overview Window is perfect for moving data in most cases. When you get a very large selection that's going to shift "over itself," that is, the destination of the shift is within the bounds of the original selection, it may be harder to move.

One big problem I've seen recently is that hidden takes are not moved. Thus, if you make a move, then change takes, it's going to be hopelessly jumbled. Offhand, I can't say if it always worked that way or not, but I don't remember it.

Generally, the actions of drags in the Tracks Overview Window result in merges. If you drag a bar of MIDI notes to another bar which already contains MIDI notes, it will merge them. To replace them, you must copy and paste, or cut and paste.

The T.O. window is one of the hidden strengths of DP, but it's not perfect for everything. And there may be bugs in DP 8.x that I don't know about, as I haven't done a thorough check of its workings since the 64 bit code rewrite. But when it's working properly, the T.O. window is great.

Shooshie

[MIDI Life Crisis]

If everything is nicely lined up in measures and the resolution of the screen is appropriate to the move you want to make, I agree, the TO window should be very easy to use.

If, OTOH, you write like I do (ignoring the metronome most of the time) or are not an extremely precise player, then basically no resolution is going to be good for precise movement by dragging.

Unless I am mistaken, data movement in the TO window jumps relative to the vertical division lines (or a proportion thereof) like a snap to grid movement. If you're zoomed in, the vertical lines are smaller increments than when you're zoomed out and allow for more precise dragging.

Is there is a setting to NOT snap to sections of the TO window and allow freer dragging of the data?

I don't know, but if there is, then you should be able to move data as you wish, as long as it doesn't conflict with data you're merging to.

Another approach would be to select the data you want to move and CUT, then move the SELECTION time to the place you want to land and MERGE the data. The exact same type and number of tracks from the source must be selected as the target (or be placed in tracks with the exact same relative position as the source tracks). Pasting into the same track as the source track is the "expected" destination, AFAIK, which would account for that implementation.

[Shooshie]

Is there is a setting to NOT snap to sections of the TO window and allow freer dragging of the data?

Yeah. You can select data freely by holding down the COMMAND key while you drag.
You can drag data freely by holding the same.

Of course, if you're dragging freely, you might prefer the Sequence Editor, though the T.O window is certainly easier to use for huge selections. It's all a matter of learning when to use it and when not to.

Back in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the Tracks Overview was the only "graphic editor" we had. You couldn't see what was in it, but if you were actively working on a project, you usually knew what was in every measure. Plus, it shaded the cells according to how much data was in them. You could zoom in for greater resolution, etc.

The best part about it was that it allowed quick rearrangement of things. Let's say you had a bass line and chords in ¾ time. That would be one bass note and two off-beat chords in each bar. Now, let's say you found it too monotonous. Well, drag one of the bass notes over by a beat and reverse the chords in that measure. You could do that before you could read this sentence, and it would retain its precision.

We got lots of practice with it back then, and that has carried over into my workflow today. Frankly I find it very hard to explain how and when I use it. It's like breathing; you just know when to do it. And also like breathing, I'd be choking for air without the Tracks Overview Window!

Shooshie

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Is there is a setting to NOT snap to sections of the TO window and allow freer dragging of the data?

Yeah. You can select data freely by holding down the COMMAND key while you drag.
You can drag data freely by holding the same.

Shooshie

Then the o/p should be able to do that easily (again, as long as it doesn't conflict with the destination). Thanks.

[Tim]

It sounds like you want to Cut and Paste (or Snip), not Drag/Shift

[MIDI Life Crisis]

It sounds like you want to Cut and Paste (or Snip), not Drag/Shift

Exactly.

Another approach would be to select the data you want to move and CUT, then move the SELECTION time to the place you want to land and MERGE the data. The exact same type and number of tracks from the source must be selected as the target (or be placed in tracks with the exact same relative position as the source tracks). Pasting into the same track as the source track is the "expected" destination, AFAIK, which would account for that implementation.

[Todzilla]

Thanks guys!

To clarify, I run into these issues with Cut and Paste, as well as dragging and shifting MIDI tracks.

I'm working on a bunch of projects that rely heavily on MIDI tracks and VIs. I often lay down a skeleton of parts, then move all tracks in a section backwards and forwards as the song gets more clarified, to insert new parts or lengthen song parts. I suppose I could use chunks for this, although I often have enough overlap between the parts, that it could be a problem.

If I've got 17 MIDI tracks that i want to select from measure 59 through 999 (well beyond the end) and shift them out 8 measures later, I run into this weird problem. Not sure if it's merging some artifacts from previously overrecorded tracks or what, but it puts an undue burden on making such changes, when it works just perfectly in the Audio world.

Yikes!

[stubbsonic]

Do check your View Filter. If some things are not being selected, it might be leaving unviewed items behind.

[Todzilla]

Stubbsonic,

Sorry, you'd asked that before and I meant to reply.

No, I don't have any view filters active. I occasionally use those, but only momentarily.