TIP: Avoiding artifacts when using PITCH in DP...

[Radiogal]

I posted this in the TUTORIAL section but I believe this insight might be of good value to all of us. So I feel the need to put it right here too as DP ppl mostly hang out here and not in the tutorial department as we all do

So here we go:

I recently read somewhere about Melodyne that it´s not recommended to merge nor bounce offline coz it will give artifacts like clicks and pops in Melodyne processed tracks..

Hmmmm.... thinking.

That made me think about DP pitch as I´m having issues with pops, clicks and variable pitching results after merging pitched tracks in DP. These artifacts aren´t there before I´m printing/merging the track(s).

So when reading this about Melodyne it made perfectly sence to me.
As DP PITCH is done In Real Time it can differe a lill bit each time you play it. It´s all CPU based and together with everything else that needs processing it seems to be hard for the processor to do this identical every time, especially when printing using merge or offline bounce.

So now I´ve changed my way of "bouncing" the pitched tracks to avoid these CPU based artifacts that occur during the offline printing.
My solution to this is to RERECORD the pitched track to BUS O/P to a new Audio Track I/P and record IN REAL TIME while this track is SOLOED!

This way all CPU is used for the pitching process.
You can monitor the process and detect problems immediately.

Since I´ve started using this procedure i haven´t yet had any problems with these artifacts anymore

The process might take some extra time but is totally worth it.
A/B check and you´ll hear the difference.

Just my 2 cents

[daniel.sneed]

Thanks for sharing this tip, RG.

Anyway, if this happens to be the case, I hope Motu goes soon into improving DP pitch correction feature. I mean reliable results in bounce, just as good as they may be in real time, and just as expected.

[Radiogal]

It´s usually not a problem but as I most often work with larger projects with multiple pitched tracks this can be an issue.
As the DP pitch function is based on the Melodyne technique and Melodyne claims that merge and offline bounce is not recommended it would probably be something that we have to live with for now.

[FMiguelez]

Hi, RG.

So if I understand correctly, when you use Pitch correction with DP on your tracks, they sound fine in real time when you are mixing (with no artifacts). You get pops and clicks ONLY when you bounce or merge, is this correct?

Sometimes I get pops and clicks when everything is playing in realtime, but that may be something different.

If I got you right, I will use your tip next time. Thanks for sharing

[jlaudon]

I remember a thread where Magic Dave also mentioned that if you have added fades/crossfades and also pitch correction to a track, then merge, there will be artifacts/pops in the merged track. He advised to bounce, which I have been doing without problems. However, I often do this last, sometimes disabling all the other tracks to make the bounces go faster (lighten CPU).

I'm surprised that bouncing has given people problems.

[macguy]

I remember a thread where Magic Dave also mentioned that if you have added fades/crossfades and also pitch correction to a track, then merge, there will be artifacts/pops in the merged track. He advised to bounce, which I have been doing without problems. However, I often do this last, sometimes disabling all the other tracks to make the bounces go faster (lighten CPU).

I'm surprised that bouncing has given people problems.

Never had any issue when merging after processing the pitch... strange, or my ears are shot!
I think it depends on how fast your machine is (in RG's case I can't see that because she has the fastest single process Mac you can get) so if there's tons of CF's and edits, maybe merging as much as possible to keep those BG processes @ a minimum should be implemented.

[FMiguelez]

I remember a thread where Magic Dave also mentioned that if you have added fades/crossfades and also pitch correction to a track, then merge, there will be artifacts/pops in the merged track. He advised to bounce, which I have been doing without problems. However, I often do this last, sometimes disabling all the other tracks to make the bounces go faster (lighten CPU).

I'm surprised that bouncing has given people problems.

Never had any issue when merging after processing the pitch... strange, or my ears are shot!
I think it depends on how fast your machine is (in RG's case I can't see that because she has the fastest single process Mac you can get) so if there's tons of CF's and edits, maybe merging as much as possible to keep those BG processes @ a minimum should be implemented.

I think that was one of the things that got improved in DP7. Prior versions suffered from that a lot.

Also, with DP4.x I used to get artifacts at the end of phrases, even if the pitch edit was at the beginning of the phrase (and I had no fades of any kind). One had to pitch-correct the WHOLE phrase (even just a few cents) to prevent this from happening. This was also addressed in DP7 (it's at least 80-90% better in this respect)

[Radiogal]

Hi, RG.

So if I understand correctly, when you use Pitch correction with DP on your tracks, they sound fine in real time when you are mixing (with no artifacts). You get pops and clicks ONLY when you bounce or merge, is this correct?

Sometimes I get pops and clicks when everything is playing in realtime, but that may be something different.

If I got you right, I will use your tip next time. Thanks for sharing

That´s correct. All of the above.
I also have some pops and click in real time sometimes. The next time you play it they´re gone. Not often, but it happens.

[daveyboy]

I noticed this problem years ago and had since gotten in the habit of merging audio files prior to using pitch. If I did hear a pop, I'd turn off pitch, merge the section in question to another audio file so that the part I'm correcting is "inside" the boundaries and the pitch correct it (with a merge eventually at the end). It only happens where there's an edit point usually. I use Melodyne all the time in other daws and have never noticed any artifacts at edit points ever. That's not to say I haven't heard an occasional weirdness though


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[Shooshie]

I posted this in the TURTORIAL section but I believe this insight might be of good value to all of us. So I feel the need to put it right here too as DP ppl mostly hang out here and not in the tutorial department as we all do

So here we go:

I recently read somewhere about Melodyne that it´s not recommended to merge nor bounce offline coz it will give artifacts like clicks and pops in Melodyne processed tracks..

Hmmmm.... thinking.

That made me think about DP pitch as I´m having issues with pops, clicks and variable pitching results after merging pitched tracks in DP. These artifacts aren´t there before I´m printing/merging the track(s).

So when reading this about Melodyne it made perfectly sence to me.
As DP PITCH is done In Real Time it can differe a lill bit each time you play it. It´s all CPU based and together with everything else that needs processing it seems to be hard for the processor to do this identical every time, especially when printing using merge or offline bounce.

So now I´ve changed my way of "bouncing" the pitched tracks to avoid these CPU based artifacts that occur during the offline printing.
My solution to this is to RERECORD the pitched track to BUS O/P to a new Audio Track I/P and record IN REAL TIME while this track is SOLOED!

This way all CPU is used for the pitching process.
You can monitor the process and detect problems immediately.

Since I´ve started using this procedure i haven´t yet had any problems with these artifacts anymore

The process might take some extra time but is totally worth it.
A/B check and you´ll hear the difference.

Just my 2 cents

I just posted this in the DP Tips Sheet, Part 3. (you'll find it at the bottom of that post; I add them sequentially rather than trying to organize them by topic, which would be a daunting task over time. Instead, I add a header that helps find it in a search about various established topics. In this case, it's in the Recording and Editing Audio, and Bouncing to Disk topics.

When you guys post something that really needs to go in the Tips Sheet, please PM me with a link to the tip. I don't read all these posts! [yeah, I know… BAAAD Shooshie] I can't always add them immediately, and there are tips that I don't think need to go there, such as tips about other products, or tips that are already covered in some way, but those that are appropriate need to be added. Also, if you come across a tip that needs updating, please guide me to it, and I'll try to get to it as soon as I can. Bear in mind that the whole tips sheet needs updating; the majority of tips are from pre-DP6! But if something is really important I'll go ahead and do it rather than put it behind the dozens of tips I have waiting in a folder somewhere to be added.

Ok… sorry for the tangent. I just wanted Radiogal to know that her tip is in there.

Shoosh

[toodamnhip]

(s).

So when reading this about Melodyne it made perfectly sence to me.
As DP PITCH is done In Real Time it can differe a lill bit each time you play it. It´s all CPU based and together with everything else that needs processing it seems to be hard for the processor to do this identical every time, especially when printing using merge or offline bounce.

The thought that DP has some sort of randomness to it’s pitching based off of processor load is absolutely maddening!!

I too have noticed pitch can change on a particular note but have long ago come to the conclusion that there are times that DP just doesn’t get to a pitched note for a moment due to other processor requirements.

Your post makes it sound like DP pitches “differently” each pass, ("a little bit differently every time”), which would mean a whole different thing as if DP changes the amount of pitch on each pass.
This could never be true. That would be either a human, random quality to the pitch algorithm or a totally broken piece of software that is so screwed up it cannot do the same thing twice!

I believe the real truth is it pitches a note or it doesn’t. Never could it pitch a note 1/2 way or partially, or with some other random variation.
The processor either gets to the pitch function and works, or..it doesn’t.
My two “cents”...lol

[waterstrum]

Recently, people have been bringing their projects to me for vocal tracking.
These are projects that have everything else already tracked.
It is a weird turn of events, but I am really enjoying the work.

I typically do some pitch massaging in DP pitch mode and freeze the track for export.

I always listen to the resultant rendered track, and so far I haven't heard pitch anomalies.
After reading this topic, I'm a bit concerned.

I will be listening and report in if I hear something out of whack.

[toodamnhip]

Merging is the little cousin of Bouncing.
Bouncing in DP has ALWAYS been suspect. Working perfectly for some, being terrible for others. Honestly, I don;t think it works perfectly for anyone. It;s just that they are lucky enough to not have the plug in that confuse DP when it bounces.

Merging has had similar problems but not as often.

I always double check my merges,

I NEVER bounce, you cant trust the mix automation, especially on HUGE< multi bussed, multi VI mixes like mine where every 3rd party plug in known to man is being used.
Inevitably, something won;t automate correctly...
They might as well through bounce to disk in the trash as far as I care..
What “professional” would ever trust a mix that has been bounced without listening to it?
The time it takes to listen and double check, which any TRUE professional should do, makes bouncing take longer than setting up a bus and mixing down in real time. Bouncing really is a ridiculous concept except for roughs and maybe sub sectional bounces.

Merging has improved over the yrs such that merging pitched audio with crossfades usually works.

[waterstrum]

You didn't mention freeze.
I always thought that would render a perfect copy of the selected audio.
Or is freeze the equivalent of bounce?
Yes?
No?

How can I render one track of audio with some DP pitch correction for absolutely accurate export?
Thanks.

[toodamnhip]

You didn't mention freeze.
I always thought that would render a perfect copy of the selected audio.
Or is freeze the equivalent of bounce?
Yes?
No?

How can I render one track of audio with some DP pitch correction for absolutely accurate export?
Thanks.

Freeze is to render a Virtual Synth track to audio, it won’t work with a whole mix