Latency with Bidule?

[hrw]

i'm using Bidule to host EW PLAY rewire slave to Digital Performer 6.02.
i'm getting alot of latency where when i playback its quite out of time with the click or any audio or VI's inside DP. How and where do i fix this?
Buffer settings somewhere? Where?

[hrw]

anyone?

[dix]

I'm just now jumping on the Bidule-wagon. I'm running six pretty full instances of Kontakt3 and three Play instances. I have the buffer in the Bidule prefs and DP set to 512. The latency is what you'd expect with that setting. I haven't tried other settings yet. Based on what I've read this appears to be the best buffer size.

[jweisbin]

Can someone please outline how to set up Bidule this way? Are you running Bidule as an AU plug or standalone? Should there be a separate instance of Bidule for each plug-in? Are you running Play as an AU plugin inside Bidule?

Thanks.

[dix]

Can someone please outline how to set up Bidule this way? Are you running Bidule as an AU plug or standalone? Should there be a separate instance of Bidule for each plug-in? Are you running Play as an AU plugin inside Bidule?

Thanks.

I use standalone and then ReWire to bring it into DP. Bidule will host many instances of various AU instruments, including Play.

Here's the video I used to get me going. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBB4Txnpl78

In fact all the videos that guy, Mike, does are extremely useful.

[jweisbin]

Thanks!

[dix]

i'm using Bidule to host EW PLAY rewire slave to Digital Performer 6.02.
i'm getting alot of latency where when i playback its quite out of time with the click or any audio or VI's inside DP. How and where do i fix this?
Buffer settings somewhere? Where?

I see what you're saying now. I just figured out/remembered that Bidule/ReWire tracks are not part of DP's Automatic Delay Compensation scheme (it's actually mentioned in Mike's Screencast thread, but I must have missed it). For example, if I double a Bidule instrument with an onboard DP plugin instrument there is flamming. As I add plugin effects to the session the flamming gets worse (longer delay). Add a Waves or UA compressor to the Master fader and forget about it - the the Bidule tracks play like 250ms ahead of the DP tracks [and the click btw, hrw]. There are benefits to Bidule, but this latency is a bit of a deal breaker for me.

I'm wondering how Bidule people are getting around this, apparently, inherent latency. Anyone?

[James Steele]

You can put a "Time Shift" plug-in on an insert in the MIDI track and advance the track until it doesn't flam.

[dix]

You can put a "Time Shift" plug-in on an insert in the MIDI track and advance the track until it doesn't flam.

Thanks James

Problem is, each plugin effect seems to introduce a unique amount of latency. I don't think it's possible to calculate one, or even two, formulas to compensate for every plugin. Am I wrong? ...hope so.

[x-post motu-mac]

[James Steele]

You can put a "Time Shift" plug-in on an insert in the MIDI track and advance the track until it doesn't flam.

Thanks James

Problem is, each plugin effect seems to introduce a unique amount of latency. I don't think it's possible to calculate one, or even two, formulas to compensate for every plugin. Am I wrong? ...hope so.

[x-post motu-mac]

Hey.. I saw your x-post. Cool to see someone from the list here too. As for unique latency amounts I don't know. As I said on MOTU-MAC, I'm mostly doing hard rock songs these days and it's pretty much all "organic." Drums, bass, guitars, vocals... all audio tracks. I use very few VIs. In fact, funny... on one song I was using RMX to add a tambourine track for sweetening a chorus, and for giggles I decided to try going out into the studio and PLAY AN ACTUAL TAMBOURINE into a good microphone, and it took just one listen to ditch the RMX track (after fixing some of my poor tambourine technique with editing!)

This is all my characteristically long-winded way of saying that I don't use a lot of VIs, therefore I'm not a good candidate for the Bidule approach. The moment I realized I would have latency to deal with, I ditched the idea right then and there!

One other thing though... I can't be sure, but I'm pretty sure that by contrast, when I ran some VIs standalone in conjunction with Soundflower to route audio back into DP, I did not have any major latency issues. My interest in Bidule was more as an "aggregator" of VIs, meaning that rather than have to open multiple VIs in standalone mode and then load the correct instruments for that DP project individually in each VI, I could just open a Bidule project associated with the DP project, and all of the VIs would load the correct instruments, etc.

[dix]

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I can't be sure, but I'm pretty sure that by contrast, when I ran some VIs standalone in conjunction with Soundflower to route audio back into DP, I did not have any major latency issues.

Well, that would be very handy! Thanks (maybe)! Before I start messing with Soundflower, can anyone confirm that it gets incorporated into DP's ADC?

[James Steele]

Someone made a post today on MOTU-MAC that at a quick reading seemed to imply he found a way to configure Bidule so there isn't MIDI latency... although I'm not sure if that's really the case. It *would* be good news of course!

[dix]

Someone made a post today on MOTU-MAC that at a quick reading seemed to imply he found a way to configure Bidule so there isn't MIDI latency... although I'm not sure if that's really the case. It *would* be good news of course!

That's my post. The solution was unearthed by "Kristopher" on MOTU-MAC. Here's (basically) what I posted:

When you create a Bidule ReWire Device it actually creates TWO modules. One for Audio, with blue tab thingys, and one for MIDI, with white tabs. Instead of connecting "Bidule 1" (as created when you drag from the MIDI Device Inputs on the palette) to my instrument, I connected the "Bidule ReWire" MIDI-module to it. In DP "Plogue Bidule Device: Bus 1" shows up and I use that as the MIDI output and hallelujah!: delay-compensated MIDI connection!! The only problem is that the "Bidule ReWire Device" MIDI-module only has 8 channels so you can only have 8 VIs working in Bidule that are in the ADC scheme - ideally I'd like to have 16. However this pretty much gets me where I need to go."