POLAR and other stuff Logic Pro doesn't have...?

[Sting]

I Posted this earlier on the LOGIC PRO forum. Got a few views but no responses. Any related inputs (including other reasons why I might purchase DP even though I already have Logic Studio) would be greatly appreciated. I'd really like to know if the extra's are worth purchasing / learning a new application.

Those who have used Digital Performer have used this... kinda like the COMP feature in Logic, but you can actually hear ALL audio on each pass of recording in a loop recording session; thus, instantly a full ensemble that can be built from audio (as well as the MIDI drum loop building that many are accustomed to). I have done this in Logic but with limitations. In Performer it seems I could pick up several different instruments and construct a full band sound while loop recording ... without even touching the computer until I am finished playing. The tracks automatically arm for Recording when an audio input signal exceeds a user definable threshold ! Can Logic do this? If not ... how can we expedite the inclusion of such a feature in the next version? I think it is interesting that many solo performers go out and spend hundreds of dollars on loop pedals to build accompaniments to jam with as a "one man band" trick.....while Digital Performer doesn't really cost much more and can basically do the same thing ......and much more. Also after running a search for posts including Digital Performer I ran across a comment implying that DP is more MIDI oriented than Logic. I find this hard to believe, but is this true? I've been using Logic since the PC days. I don't want to switch or split between Logic and Performer. Well, maybe MAC's gonna buy out MOTU and then problem solved. Any ideas?

[David Polich]

The question is kind of moot, isn't it? Every DAW has features unique to it. God forbid
they would all have the same exact set of features or workflow.

Logic has Main Stage, DP doesn't. DP has Polar, Logic doesn't. MIDI implementation
in both Logic and DP is about the same. Pro Tools is the DAW with the poorer
MIDI implementation (although Pro Tools 8 promises to improve in this area).

The closest thing to Polar would be Ableton Live, I guess.

[rikp]

I use both DP and Logic Studio. Strengths in both programs, but you can't beat all the sounds that come bundled with Logic. I really wish DP would do that.

My .5 cents.

Peace

Rik Pfenninger

[nathanpinard]

There's a lot of features in DP that Logic doesn't have.

Logic has like one unique feature, and that's the fact you can bounce offline without having to freeze/track anything.

Not sure what other sequencers can do this.

[GloryisSilent]

There's a lot of features in DP that Logic doesn't have.

Logic has like one unique feature, and that's the fact you can bounce offline without having to freeze/track anything.

Not sure what other sequencers can do this.

You can bounce offline without freezing anything in DP... I didn't know there was any other way in fact? Maybe I am not understanding what you're saying.

[tonwurm]

here are some things DP doesn´t have...

1. no MIDI regions in the SE - it´s so cumbersome to copy MIDI and it´s so confusing to get an overview of the arrangement. it´s so much easier to see what is the musical context in Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar, Live, Samplitude.... I don´t know any other DAW, which doesn´t support MIDI-region editing. For me it is a mystery, why Motu still doesn´t provide that, even PT7 with it´s ridiculous MIDI implentation has that feature
2. no muting of individual MIDI-notes
3. no loop recording with MIDI (like it behaves with audio, so that every pass creates a new take)
4. there´s no handy manipulation of incoming MIDI-data (crazy consoles don´t doin´it...for me another big secret in DP)
5. no snapping of MIDI-notes or soundbites to the current wiper position or an adjacent region on another track
6. I/O inserts
7. selected tracks in the SE are not highlited in the mixer window (in big arrangements it has always been a big search to locate the according fader)
8. no saveable settings in the create-, change- and reassign contionuous data windows (I assume they have forgotten to put it in)
9. MIDI-monitoring (why not putting a little MIDI-monitor window in the control window so that one has a detailed view of what´s happening with MIDI-in)
10. the handtool for stretching soundbites doesn´t work with more than one selected soundbite
11. better documentation including update info and user manual as pdf and support (I have techlinks unread since 4 months and if there´s coming an respond it´s often incompetent), updates (no updates clearing the worst bugs for months) and the lack of Motu´s communication with it´s users

[rikp]

There's a lot of features in DP that Logic doesn't have.

Logic has like one unique feature, and that's the fact you can bounce offline without having to freeze/track anything.

Not sure what other sequencers can do this.

You can bounce offline without freezing anything in DP... I didn't know there was any other way in fact? Maybe I am not understanding what you're saying.

I think what he is trying to say is that in Logic, you can just bounce your whole project to an MP3 mix, including MIDI software plugs. As far as I know in DP, you need to turn your software instruments into audio tracks before you can bounce down a mix.

Peace

Rik Pfenninger

[carrythebanner]

As far as I know in DP, you need to turn your software instruments into audio tracks before you can bounce down a mix.

In DP 6, virtual instruments can be bounced to disk, provided that the instruments support it. All AU instrument should support it (it's possible that there are some that don't, but it's unlikely), and some MAS instruments do as well (all of the instruments included with DP, MX4, and UVI Workstation).

MAS instruments which do not support directly bouncing to disk at this time include: MachFive v1, MachFive v2, MSI, Ethno, Electric Keys, Universal UVI Player, and Plugsound Pro. MachFive v2, MSI, Ethno, and Electric Keys are presumed to be an update away from this ability; MachFive v1 has been discontinued in favor of v2, while the Universal UVI Player and Plugsound Pro are both presumed to be discontinued & replaced by UVI Workstation.

[Dwetmaster]

here are some things DP doesn´t have...

1. no MIDI regions in the SE - it´s so cumbersome to copy MIDI and it´s so confusing to get an overview of the arrangement. it´s so much easier to see what is the musical context in Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar, Live, Samplitude.... I don´t know any other DAW, which doesn´t support MIDI-region editing. For me it is a mystery, why Motu still doesn´t provide that, even PT7 with it´s ridiculous MIDI implentation has that feature
2. no muting of individual MIDI-notes
3. no loop recording with MIDI (like it behaves with audio, so that every pass creates a new take)
4. there´s no handy manipulation of incoming MIDI-data (crazy consoles don´t doin´it...for me another big secret in DP)
5. no snapping of MIDI-notes or soundbites to the current wiper position or an adjacent region on another track
6. I/O inserts
7. selected tracks in the SE are not highlited in the mixer window (in big arrangements it has always been a big search to locate the according fader)
8. no saveable settings in the create-, change- and reassign contionuous data windows (I assume they have forgotten to put it in)
9. MIDI-monitoring (why not putting a little MIDI-monitor window in the control window so that one has a detailed view of what´s happening with MIDI-in)
10. the handtool for stretching soundbites doesn´t work with more than one selected soundbite
11. better documentation including update info and user manual as pdf and support (I have techlinks unread since 4 months and if there´s coming an respond it´s often incompetent), updates (no updates clearing the worst bugs for months) and the lack of Motu´s communication with it´s users

I might not understand properly but I believe # 1, 4, 5, 9 are there?

1. Maybe you could define what you describe as a MIDI region?
4. The Realtime MIDI Plugs are useful for a lot of stuff (transpose, reassign, velocity curve, etc...)
5. Using the command window with the extended selecting most of this can be done with one or two finger
9. Doesn't the MIDI monitor window give what you need? If not I use an app called MIDI Monitor for extended MIDI troubleshooting.

Not sure what you mean by I/O inserts?

#3, 7, 8, 11, are DEFINITELY needed IMHO

Hope I can understand you a bit better.

[carrythebanner]

9. Doesn't the MIDI monitor window give what you need? If not I use an app called MIDI Monitor for extended MIDI troubleshooting.

+1 — Excellent application.
http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor

[tonwurm]

here are some things DP doesn´t have...

1. no MIDI regions in the SE - it´s so cumbersome to copy MIDI and it´s so confusing to get an overview of the arrangement. it´s so much easier to see what is the musical context in Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar, Live, Samplitude.... I don´t know any other DAW, which doesn´t support MIDI-region editing. For me it is a mystery, why Motu still doesn´t provide that, even PT7 with it´s ridiculous MIDI implentation has that feature
2. no muting of individual MIDI-notes
3. no loop recording with MIDI (like it behaves with audio, so that every pass creates a new take)
4. there´s no handy manipulation of incoming MIDI-data (crazy consoles don´t doin´it...for me another big secret in DP)
5. no snapping of MIDI-notes or soundbites to the current wiper position or an adjacent region on another track
6. I/O inserts
7. selected tracks in the SE are not highlited in the mixer window (in big arrangements it has always been a big search to locate the according fader)
8. no saveable settings in the create-, change- and reassign contionuous data windows (I assume they have forgotten to put it in)
9. MIDI-monitoring (why not putting a little MIDI-monitor window in the control window so that one has a detailed view of what´s happening with MIDI-in)
10. the handtool for stretching soundbites doesn´t work with more than one selected soundbite
11. better documentation including update info and user manual as pdf and support (I have techlinks unread since 4 months and if there´s coming an respond it´s often incompetent), updates (no updates clearing the worst bugs for months) and the lack of Motu´s communication with it´s users

I might not understand properly but I believe # 1, 4, 5, 9 are there?

1. Maybe you could define what you describe as a MIDI region?
4. The Realtime MIDI Plugs are useful for a lot of stuff (transpose, reassign, velocity curve, etc...)
5. Using the command window with the extended selecting most of this can be done with one or two finger
9. Doesn't the MIDI monitor window give what you need? If not I use an app called MIDI Monitor for extended MIDI troubleshooting.

Not sure what you mean by I/O inserts?

#3, 7, 8, 11, are DEFINITELY needed IMHO

Hope I can understand you a bit better.

Sorry for my bad english,
1. in logic a MIDI region is an object in the arrange-window (that window compares to the SE in DP), f.e. a record take, which you can cut in single pieces and re-arrange. it´s a graphical object (like audio soundbites), so you can easily see, what´s your refrain,verse, bridge...and you can move or copy the whole region by dragging, without marking a time range before. another big adavantage of region-editing is the ability to assign individual and non destructive parameters to this regions, like transpose, mute, time-shift, velocity change and so on. in DP you have to make it destructive or you have to create new tracks.... all that is so time consumpting
4. the realtime MIDI plugs can´t do f.e. something like this: assigning an incoming controller to another controller and scale it in one step. I frequently want to control the filter frequency of a synth by the modulation-wheel, but only in a defined range - in logic you can assign any incoming event to any other vent you want
5. in logic it´s possible to move any event (soundbite, MIDI-note, controller-event....) to the current play-position with only one key-command
9. no, the MIDI-monitor only displays MIDI-activity, but no detailed view. in logic you can see controller-number and value, even realtime chord-recognition. I know MIDI-monitor, it´s a nice utility, but another step in opening. in logic it´s always there

an I/O insert is exactly working like a plug, but you´re inserting external hardware like compressor, reverb ... it´s so handy, you can bypass and compare


Not to understand me wrong, I like DP much more than logic, but some things are very good in logic and I miss them all the time ;-(


All the best ! J.F.

[GloryisSilent]

here are some things DP doesn´t have...

1. no MIDI regions in the SE - it´s so cumbersome to copy MIDI and it´s so confusing to get an overview of the arrangement. it´s so much easier to see what is the musical context in Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar, Live, Samplitude.... I don´t know any other DAW, which doesn´t support MIDI-region editing. For me it is a mystery, why Motu still doesn´t provide that, even PT7 with it´s ridiculous MIDI implentation has that feature
2. no muting of individual MIDI-notes
3. no loop recording with MIDI (like it behaves with audio, so that every pass creates a new take)
4. there´s no handy manipulation of incoming MIDI-data (crazy consoles don´t doin´it...for me another big secret in DP)
5. no snapping of MIDI-notes or soundbites to the current wiper position or an adjacent region on another track
6. I/O inserts
7. selected tracks in the SE are not highlited in the mixer window (in big arrangements it has always been a big search to locate the according fader)
8. no saveable settings in the create-, change- and reassign contionuous data windows (I assume they have forgotten to put it in)
9. MIDI-monitoring (why not putting a little MIDI-monitor window in the control window so that one has a detailed view of what´s happening with MIDI-in)
10. the handtool for stretching soundbites doesn´t work with more than one selected soundbite
11. better documentation including update info and user manual as pdf and support (I have techlinks unread since 4 months and if there´s coming an respond it´s often incompetent), updates (no updates clearing the worst bugs for months) and the lack of Motu´s communication with it´s users

#3 just turn on Memory cycle, auto record and overdub. Each pass records MIDI to the same track. I use this to build quick and easy drum beats when a metronome isn't useful
#7 Preferences->Display->Scroll Mixing board to the selection
#9 not sure what you mean here, there's lots of MIDI monitoring options that are in plain view or can be put in plain view

[James Steele]

As far as I know in DP, you need to turn your software instruments into audio tracks before you can bounce down a mix.

As others have pointed out, that's no longer true as of DP6. However, not all software instruments are supported yet, but I routinely do bounces with UVI Workstation and Addictive Drums and never have to print to audio first.

[rikp]

As far as I know in DP, you need to turn your software instruments into audio tracks before you can bounce down a mix.

As others have pointed out, that's no longer true as of DP6. However, not all software instruments are supported yet, but I routinely do bounces with UVI Workstation and Addictive Drums and never have to print to audio first.

Thanks James for the update. While I own DP6, I have not started to use it yet. I am waiting for the dust to settle and for some of my deadlines to be a little less hurried. January is usually a slow month for me, so hopefully I will dig into DP6 then. In the meantime, I am firmly entrenched in DP 5.13, with little or no problems!

Peace

Rik Pfenninger

[timriley]

here are some things DP doesn´t have...

1. no MIDI regions in the SE - it´s so cumbersome to copy MIDI and it´s so confusing to get an overview of the arrangement. it´s so much easier to see what is the musical context in Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar, Live, Samplitude.... I don´t know any other DAW, which doesn´t support MIDI-region editing. For me it is a mystery, why Motu still doesn´t provide that, even PT7 with it´s ridiculous MIDI implentation has that feature
2. no muting of individual MIDI-notes
3. no loop recording with MIDI (like it behaves with audio, so that every pass creates a new take)
4. there´s no handy manipulation of incoming MIDI-data (crazy consoles don´t doin´it...for me another big secret in DP)
5. no snapping of MIDI-notes or soundbites to the current wiper position or an adjacent region on another track
6. I/O inserts
7. selected tracks in the SE are not highlited in the mixer window (in big arrangements it has always been a big search to locate the according fader)
8. no saveable settings in the create-, change- and reassign contionuous data windows (I assume they have forgotten to put it in)
9. MIDI-monitoring (why not putting a little MIDI-monitor window in the control window so that one has a detailed view of what´s happening with MIDI-in)
10. the handtool for stretching soundbites doesn´t work with more than one selected soundbite
11. better documentation including update info and user manual as pdf and support (I have techlinks unread since 4 months and if there´s coming an respond it´s often incompetent), updates (no updates clearing the worst bugs for months) and the lack of Motu´s communication with it´s users

1. +1. Although there is some opposition to having MIDI regions implemented in DP.....
2. +1
3. +1
10. It does work if all the soundbites you wish to stretch (or shorten) are exactly the same length and in the same position on each track..
11. MOTUNATION!