Best piano sample library? especially Steinway?

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monkey man
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Post by monkey man »

Well Christopher, I've not had the privilege of running a piano VI, but if it helps you feel any better, my system has much in common with yours and it appears it'll do the job (I'm hoping to get 5 years out of it unless I strike it big!):

I've bought the 8 core 2.8, ordered two WD 500G drives, and will seek a little more RAM down the track. You'll likely need more than I for the VIs.
I went with the standard video card, which can drive 2 30" displays, so IMHO unless you have specific requirements the standard card should be OK.
It's got 256MB of some new-fangled VRAM, which sounds kinda impressive for audio work to me.
The PCIe card's not complained, and DP5.13, although I've only run it briefly, seemed quite at home.

Your question regarding which speed to go for is easy to answer:
Unlike the typical desktop ranges of the past, the current offerings all seem to offer the same RAM speeds, the same sized caches and throughput bandwidths and the same number of PCI slots and drivebays, meaning that there's never been less relative difference between the performance and expansion potential of the various machines in the range.
So at this time the dual quad 2.8 might well be one of the the best value Macs ever, IMHO.

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zed
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Post by zed »

monkey man wrote:I've bought the 8 core 2.8, ordered two WD 500G drives...
Hey! Congratulations Monkey Man! That is great news. That is gonna be a huge step up for you and will no doubt give you some breathing room to create music more efficiently. I'm currently choking with my G5 dual 2.5, so I will be following suit sometime shortly. I'm gonna wait to see if the efficiency of DP 6 can buy me another year with what I've got.

But I am very glad to hear that you've made a move! :)
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Renaissance Man
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Post by Renaissance Man »

monkey man,
What's it like in Melborne? If Clinton or Obama get elected I might move there... Ha!
You chose the WD hard drives... how's your experience as far as durability? Just curious. My brother works on computers and swears by WD. I've always used Segates (by default) in my Glyph external drives. I've used Maxtor IDE internals in both my G4's with no problems either. I usually let the 2nd internal drive do all the work and use the externals to back up. Didn't really find the SCSI externals (even the 10,000 rpm model) to be any faster than the IDE internal. Firewire 400 isn't even in the running- too slow. I'll be curious to see how these Glyph GT50 Quad interface drives perform connected via Firewire 800 (my older G4's are firewire 400 only).
On my office PC I have one Maxtor and one WD "Book" external but don't have enough hours on them to make any judgement as far as durability.
I've always kept my files compacted and deleted unused soundbytes. The thinking- that it eliminates unnecessary drive wear.
Thanks for your input.
Christopher
Mac Pro Early 2008 8-core 2.8, 16GB RAM, SSD, El Capitan, DP9.5.4; Waves Mercury V9.6 + SSL 4000 Collection, SyncroArts VocAlign Project 3, EastWest Quantum Leap Pianos & Voices of Soul, Nomad Factory Integral Studio Pack, BBE D82 Sonic Maximizer, Slate Digital VCC RC Tube and Trigger, MOTU PCIe 424, 3-2408Mk3's, 24io, MTP AV USB, Apogee A/D & Big Ben, CraneSong HEDD 192, ATC monitors, racks full of outboard, 90 microphones, MIDI/keyboard rig, house drums & tuned percussion etc...
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monkey man
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Post by monkey man »

Renaissance Man wrote:monkey man,
What's it like in Melborne? If Clinton or Obama get elected I might move there... Ha!
Well, you have Obama '08, and we now have Kevin '07.
All rhetoric and aspirational catch-phrases, but no substance.
Our Kevin apparently borrowed much from American campaigning etiquette, and even used members of (I think) Obama's team.
I fear we just voted out the best government we've ever had down under.

Politics is off limits in these parts, so our one-dimensional exchange will have to end here I'm afraid. :D

I chose WD because they've served me well, always, and I have respect for the company 'cause a fella called Chuck Missler saved it from the brink during the late eighties and I happen to be a fan of this man's achievements - he's got the bio from Hell, and I'm not kidding you.
For instance, he was building digital computers in his garage as a teenager... in the '40s. :shock:
At that time, even the pros were only experimenting with valves.

The only other drive I've bought was the IBM Deskstar, better known as the Deathstar, and I went through 4 or 5 of them and a lot of grief; they all failed on day one.
Renaissance Man wrote:Thanks for your input.
Christopher
Hey, no worries Chris. :D

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monkey man
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Post by monkey man »

zed wrote:
monkey man wrote:I've bought the 8 core 2.8, ordered two WD 500G drives...
Hey! Congratulations Monkey Man! That is great news. That is gonna be a huge step up for you and will no doubt give you some breathing room to create music more efficiently.
Any music-making at all would be more efficient than having nothing rolling off the production line...

Hopefully DP's soon-to-be-released new plug set will earn its keep here and allow me to get straight into it without worrying about Altiverb and the like.
zed wrote:I'm currently choking with my G5 dual 2.5, so I will be following suit sometime shortly. I'm gonna wait to see if the efficiency of DP 6 can buy me another year with what I've got.
Good idea - the VI pre-rendering alone could well put you back in the black. :D

I'll be running a bunch of live audio (MIDI hardware) tracks live into the mix and aux system, and I've found that this does chew the cycles quite a bit.
I assume it's because DP can't pre-render live audio.
zed wrote:But I am very glad to hear that you've made a move! :)
Yay! Thanks man. It's been part of a long-term plan to use an enhanced version of DP (thank you for what's coming, MOTU) with a Mac I can hang onto for 5 years.
Looks like it's gonna happen. Crikey, you're getting me all excited, Zed. :D

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Post by ETM Dude »

There are audio demoes up now of the new EastWest QL Pianos...

http://www.soundsonline.com/EastWest-Qu ... W-171.html

Sound pretty good... at 230 GB they better be!
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Post by Frodo »

Heard some of those. I thought the Bosendorfers came out better than the Steinways, imho, but for some reason I got tired of listening really fast. I'll give it another go tomorrow.
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Renaissance Man
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Post by Renaissance Man »

ETM Dude wrote:There are audio demoes up now of the new EastWest QL Pianos...

http://www.soundsonline.com/EastWest-Qu ... W-171.html

Sound pretty good... at 230 GB they better be!
Has this been released yet?
Christopher
Mac Pro Early 2008 8-core 2.8, 16GB RAM, SSD, El Capitan, DP9.5.4; Waves Mercury V9.6 + SSL 4000 Collection, SyncroArts VocAlign Project 3, EastWest Quantum Leap Pianos & Voices of Soul, Nomad Factory Integral Studio Pack, BBE D82 Sonic Maximizer, Slate Digital VCC RC Tube and Trigger, MOTU PCIe 424, 3-2408Mk3's, 24io, MTP AV USB, Apogee A/D & Big Ben, CraneSong HEDD 192, ATC monitors, racks full of outboard, 90 microphones, MIDI/keyboard rig, house drums & tuned percussion etc...
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zed
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Post by zed »

Renaissance Man wrote:Has this been released yet?
Christopher
Estimated ship date for this product is February 29, 2008
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mhschmieder
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Post by mhschmieder »

Is it a different Bosendorfer from the PMI 290 that is now being folded into the Goliath PLAY update for Colossus?

Just curious, for myself and others. I'm doing the Goliath update in a few days with no consideration for the pianos, in case it's my last shot at it before the price goes up.

FWIW, the PMI Bosendorfer 290 got rave reviews at Sound-On-Sound and elsewhere. Most reviewers seem to feel it is more expressive than the one from Vienna Instruments, which I got for free back in December as part of a package deal and may find useful for non-solo orchestral work.
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Post by ETM Dude »

The Bosendorfer from the QL Pianos is different than that of EW/PMI Bosendorfer 290. Its some 60 GB in size!

-JK
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Post by David Polich »

Ummm - well, I just have to do it - gotta mention Pianoteq.

I have Yamaha Disklavier Mark III. When I've decided on what the piano part really should be, I record the Disklavier. But while I'm developing a piano part, I use Pianoteq, because it behaves like a real piano. I have Ivory, I don't use it. It sounds good, but it simply doesn't behave like a real piano.
No sampled piano does.

I've encountered a lot of complaints on this forum about some degree of "fakeness" in the middle octaves of Pianoteq, and I could agree with some
of that, no question. That said, I've even recorded tracks which were just solo piano and vocal, using Pianoteq, and have without exception had people tell me they really appreciate my recording my Disklavier for the track, when in fact it wasn't the Disklavier.

The sampled pianos may currently have the edge in realistic sound, but
the future of virtual piano sounds is modeling. Products like Pianoteq are going to win, and then we won't be concerned with these huge sampled pianos anymore.
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monkey man
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Post by monkey man »

For someone such as I who has been holding out for financial and fear-of-lack-of-disk-space reasons on buying a piano VI, your angle is encouraging, David.
The thread last year where Shooshie and (I think) you predicted and justified that this would happen gave me hope that it would one day be an option for me.
The fact that you're still seeing it this way only strengthens my faith that if I were to buy a modelled piano this or next year, it'd be able to serve all my acoustic piano needs.

I also hope that DP will include a modelled EP VI before too long, but that's mainly due to my anticipating that all sorts of modelled VIs and plugs will become the norm for many.
Heck, I don't need the best of the best, but to have access to a plethora of nearly-perfectly-modelled VIs and FX would be heaven for me! :oops:

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Post by mhschmieder »

Pianoteq remains my preferred piano, and the only other one I ever use is GeneralMusic's RP-x half-rack module using DRAKE modeling technology in conjunction with samples. The latter sometimes works better for me in thick mixes where there's a lot of sampled orchestral strings.

I gave up last year on promoting Pianoteq as it became clear that there are two basic camps out there: ones demanding 100% accurate timbre for popular high-end pianos, and ones more concerned about playability and depth of expression.

Even so, I predict that as more people work up good presets, Pianoteq will come closer and closer to meeting the demands of those wanting it to sound exactly like a Steinway or Bosendorfer (and in each case, pick your favourite model for each brand :-)).
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zed
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Re: Best piano sample library? especially Steinway?

Post by zed »

Renaissance Man wrote:Post subject: Best piano sample library? especially Steinway?
Hey... did you guys know that Garritan have now released their Authorized Steinway Virtual Concert Grand?

Main product page: http://garritan.com/steinway.html

And they have finally posted some demo mp3s: http://garritan.com/steinway_demos.html

Unfortunately for me, being a pop/rock guy, there are no demos to show me the piano used as more of a rhythmic instrument. I think all the developers which release piano VIs should be required to put up a demo of that piano playing Let it Be or Hey Jude. But what do I know?

Apparently there will be some more demos posted soon. :-)
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